Lipo battery disposal

[anishmac]

Where do we usually keep/dispose damaged lipo batteries ?
Do we have any recycling bin in our club ?

[briankizner]

I don’t have an answer to the first question. I think it depends on the municipality where you live. As for question two, the club has no facilities to handle any waste. We ask all members not to leave any waste at the field.

[Sempai-mj]

Where do we usually keep/dispose damaged lipo batteries ?
Do we have any recycling bin in our club ?

Find an ECO-Center near you, they take all batteries.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=find%20eco-center&source=hp&ei=1PKpYvLiBo3JptQPl9etuAw&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYqoA5JEufg5M_N1gajCmpQWnxfSGVg2 w&ved=2ahUKEwjh2_Ku26_4AhXfg4kEHe9LCWgQvS56BAgOEAE&uact=5&oq=find+eco-center&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKABOhQIABDqAhC0AhCKAxC 3AxDUAxDlAjoOCC4QjwEQ6gIQjAMQ5QI6DggAEI8BEOoCEIwDE OUCOgUIABCRAjoRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQ0QM6DggAEIAEELE DEIMBEIsDOhoILhCABBCxAxCDARDHARDRAxCLAxCoAxDSAzoIC AAQgAQQiwM6CwgAELEDEIMBEIsDOgsIABCxAxCDARCRAjoRCC4 QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6DgguEIAEEMcBENEDEIsDOhQILhCxA xCDARDUAhCLAxCjAxCoAzoRCAAQgAQQsQMQiwMQqAMQ0gM6Fwg uEIAEELEDEIMBEIsDEJoDEJgDEKgDOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToXC C4QgAQQsQMQgwEQiwMQqAMQmAMQmgM6DgguEIAEEMcBEK8BEIs DOg4ILhCABBCxAxDUAhCLAzoICAAQsQMQiwM6BQgAEIAEOgYIA BAeEBY6CQgAEB4QyQMQFjoICAAQHhAPEBY6CAgAEB4QFhAKOgg IIRAeEBYQHToHCCEQChCgAVCuBlitI2ChJGgBcAB4AIABVIgBz geSAQIxNZgBAKABAbABCrgBAg&sclient=gws-wiz&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:2&tbm=lcl&rflfq=1&num=10&rldimm=14025646584648871398&lqi=Cg9maW5kIGVjby1jZW50ZXJIpY7A4vuqgIAIWhkQABABEA IYAiIPZmluZCBlY28gY2VudGVykgEQcmVjeWNsaW5nX2NlbnRl cpoBJENoZERTVWhOTUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VNeWRscFlOemxuUl JBQqoBFxABKhMiD2ZpbmQgZWNvIGNlbnRlcigA&sa=X&rlst=f#rlfi=hd:;si:14025646584648871398,l,Cg9maW5k IGVjby1jZW50ZXJIpY7A4vuqgIAIWhkQABABEAIYAiIPZmluZC BlY28gY2VudGVykgEQcmVjeWNsaW5nX2NlbnRlcpoBJENoZERT VWhOTUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VNeWRscFlOemxuUlJBQqoBFxABKh MiD2ZpbmQgZWNvIGNlbnRlcigA;mv:[[46.166028999999995,-72.3809431],[45.192457399999995,-75.91775299999999]];tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!1m4!1u2!2m2!2m1!1e1! 2m1!1e2!2m1!1e3,lf:1

[Tigron]

I would add, that before disposing the batteries, you should deactivate them.
Usually it is done with a can of salty water.

Prepare the glass jar or plastic container that you can submerge the whole battery inside.
Fill it with water and solve a lot of salt (like 1 tea spoon on 1 liter of water).
Carefully cut or unsolder the wires of the battery - one by one. Only the battery electrodes should stay. Don't forget to isolate them with the tape to prevent accidental short.
Submerge the battery into the prepared salty water and keep it outside of the house (as it will produce gases) for 24 hours. Make sure it stays on inflammable surface and can't short circuit with the walls of the container (can)
When there is no more reaction (bubbles coming from the battery) the battery (with the water and most likely the the container) can be disposed.

This is done to prevent accidental fire. The electricity left in the battery will cause electrolyze process in the salty water and will dissolve one of the electrodes (so there will be nothing to short circuit) also it will completely drain the battery to zero and probably (not sure) salty water will react with lithium deactivating it.

[anishmac]

Thanks everyone for the information

[Andrew Fernie]

This is from a document by Thunder Power (battery pack supplier):


** DISPOSAL OF LIPO BATTERIES **

Unlike NiCd batteries, lithium-polymer batteries are environmentally friendly.

For safety reasons, it’s best that LiPo cells be fully discharged before disposal (however,if physically damaged it is NOT recommended to discharge LiPo cells before disposal - see below for details). The batteries must also be cool before proceeding with disposal instructions. To dispose of LiPo cells and packs:

1. If any LiPo cell in the pack has been physically damaged, resulting in a swollen cell or a split or tear in a cell’s foil covering, do NOT discharge the battery. Jump to step 5.

2. Place the LiPo battery in a fireproof container or bucket of sand.

3. Connect the battery to a LiPo discharger. Set the discharge cutoff voltage to the lowest possible value. Set the discharge current to a C/10 value, with “C” being the capacity rating of the pack. For example, the “1C” rating for a 1200mAh battery is 1.2A, and that battery’s C/10 current value is (1.2A / 10) can be used, such as a power resistor or set of light bulbs as long as the discharge current doesn’t exceed the C/10 value and cause an overheating condition.
For LiPo packs rated at 7.4V and 11.1V , connect a 150 ohm resistor with a power rating of 2 watts (commonly found at Radio Shack)to the pack’s positive and negative terminals to safely discharge connecting it to an ESC/ motor system and allowing the motor to run indefinitely until no power remains to further cause the system to function.

4. Discharge the battery until its voltage reaches 1.0V per cell or lower. For resistive load type discharges, discharge the battery for up to 24 hours.

5. Submerse the battery into bucket or tub of salt water. This container should have a lid, but it should not need to be air-tight. Prepare a plastic container (do not use metal) of cold water. And mix in 1/2 cup of salt per gallon of water. Drop the battery into the salt water. Allow the battery to remain in the tub of salt water for at least 2 weeks.

6. Remove the LiPo battery from the salt water, wrap it in newspaper or paper towels and place it in the normal trash. They are landfill safe.

[Andrew Fernie]

An interesting bit about that article is "Discharge the battery until its voltage reaches 1.0V per cell or lower." I have always used the salt water technique and was discussing it with someone who pointed me to this article (https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/salt-water-lipo-disposal-bad-idea-or-really-bad-idea.12467/). The rationale is that when you put a more highly charged pack in salt water the terminals can corrode before the battery has finished discharging. As long as you get the voltage low enough before going into the salt water the amount of energy left is so small that the corrosion isn't a problem. Presumably it is the copper oxide that is acting as an insulator and stopping the discharge. I would be interested to hear if anyone has gone through the salt water process then cut the cable to get a nice clean surface and checked the voltage.



Any chemists around that would like to comment on the corrosion theory?


Straight C/10 discharge with some form of load (appropriately sized resistor, light bulb, or an electronic load) is viable.



p.s. Forget you saw any reference to slashing cells in that article (just a reference for background, the article does not recommend it). Never. Never. Never.

[Sempai-mj]

Thanks Andrew,

6. Remove the LiPo battery from the salt water, wrap it in newspaper or paper towels and place it in the normal trash. They are landfill safe.

Plastic and rubber landfill

[Dwight Macdonald]

I have always discharged them as low as the charger would take them, then cut all the leads individually at slightly different lengths (so they don't short) and dropped the battery in salt water for a few weeks. I kept the bucket of salt water out in the back yard where it could not damage anything. Long after the bubbles stop coming from the ends of the wires, or the battery, I fish it out, cut the leads to show fresh copper and check to confirm 0 volts. The battery is then thrown in the garbage. I suppose if the battery was fully charged when placed in the salt water, the leads could corrode off and the discharging could slow or stop, but this is not very likely. A battery damaged in a crash that could not be safely discharged using a charger or a light bulb may be best destroyed directly in the salt water, with a careful check that all the cells are at 0 volts before putting it in the garbage.

[Mezri]

Teh New generation of chargers have the fonction ''kill lipo''...will discharge them the maximum...with the salted water it is an option as long as the lipo cells are still sealed...if pierced or physically damaged, watch this video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTJh_bzI0QQ

[Glenn Hole]

If a fire breaks out what type of fire extinguisher would you need for a

Lithium Polymer Batteries.?

Thanks

[Florin]

Teh New generation of chargers have the fonction ''kill lipo''...will discharge them the maximum...with the salted water it is an option as long as the lipo cells are still sealed...if pierced or physically damaged, watch this video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTJh_bzI0QQ
Holly cow! I kept the batteries in a fireplace (unused for years). Now I've moved them to the shed. I don't know what to do in the winter

Edit: Now I'm realizing that there are a lot of devices in the house that use lipo batteries, from phones, tablets, even fire alarms, LOL

[anishmac]

If the batteries are damaging by a crash at club and as it is not safe to take the damaged batteries with us in the car to an eco-center / home for disposal, what are the options we have ?

Can we do the salt-water / load discharge from the club itself?

[Tigron]

If a fire breaks out what type of fire extinguisher would you need for a Lithium Polymer Batteries?

I suppose, Class D Fire Extinguisher.
https://blog.koorsen.com/what-is-a-class-d-fire-extinguisher-used-for

But in fact you should just let it burn out as the tiny amount of lithium will likely burn out much faster than you will bring your fire extinguisher. So normal Class A or B fire extinguisher may be OK to extinguish the remains.

If the batteries are damaging by a crash at club and as it is not safe to take the damaged batteries with us in the car to an eco-center / home for disposal, what are the options we have ?

Can we do the salt-water / load discharge from the club itself?
With some caution, if you put it into a plastic sac for insulation and metal box against fire (in fact you should always keep LiPO in fire proof bag or box), theoretically you can bring it home for deactivation and disposal.
But yes, if we had all proper facilities in the club - it would be much safer.
At least some fire pit, where the damaged and already burning LiPO can be safely burned without causing any disaster. It also can be used for a safe BBQ.
Having water and electricity in the club is also a good idea, but could be very expensive to do.

https://hgtvhome.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/grdn/fullset/2013/10/30/0/dry-stack-fire-pit-project-1-1fd1df520000.jpg.rend.hgtvcom.406.271.suffix/1452662906742.jpeg
https://www.hgtv.com/outdoors/landscaping-and-hardscaping/how-to-make-a-backyard-fire-pit

[Glenn Hole]

Thanks for info Dmitry:)

Glenn

[Andrew Fernie]

I think that Class D is for a metallic lithium fire rather than a Lithium-ion fire. Primary batteries (non-rechargeable like coin cells) can fall into the metallic lithium category.

From this site, BC or ABC for Li-ion.
https://firefighterinsider.com/the-best-fire-extinguisher-for-lithium-ion-batteries/

But, you need to be careful. The gases from a Li-ion fire are toxic, and they are not easy to put out. Battery storage areas have sprinklers with lots of water, but they are really just trying to minimize spread rather than counting on putting the fire out.

Another good site is this one https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-304a-safety-concerns-with-li-ion

[Glenn Hole]

Hi Andrew,
Thanks very much for all the great info. Lots to absorb!
Glenn