Falcon 120 with K80E turbine

[dhamultun]

My latest project is putting together a gas turbine powered aircraft. I've gone with a Falcon 120 which is a turbine trainer that is easy to fly. I purchased and received my turbine last June. I purchased the required ground support equipment and required fittings recently. This weekend I setup the turbine on a test stand and ran it for the first time. I was excited and nervous. Here is a short video of my first test run. Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/3n7ZMDQqV64

[Sempai-mj]

Cool, but kind of scarey

:)

[Kevin Rochon]

Nice David,

I like, what is it, a idle of 55k RPM:D

I see you went all out an HK orange rx or is it no more $$$:D

[dhamultun]

Here are some pictures of the airplane and retracts. Still need to get a good radio system, servos, wheels and brakes. There will be a total of 11 servos installed.

[dhamultun]

Nice David,

I like, what is it, a idle of 55k RPM:D

I see you went all out an HK orange rx or is it no more $$$:D

Idle is 45k RPM, I am not sure why it was running around 56k today. I am going to re-learn the ECU the throttle set points and re-test.

The HK orange receiver was only for testing on the bench. Looking at a complete new radio system for the airframe. I was thinking Futaba, but you have scared me off them a little.:eek:

[dhamultun]

Here are a couple more pics.

[Jaruiz]

Well done David ! ! Those turbines are awesome, incredible mini replicas of the real ones. :)
Are you planning the maiden any time soon or next spring? at Wimac or it's too short?

[dhamultun]

Probably next season, not sure where I'll fly it yet. I believe our runway is long enough and it does slow down to about 32km/h for landing. It will have brakes on the main wheels.

[Kevin Rochon]

How does it work to get your turbine certification?

[Stephy]

My God!! I have flown that in Clearview!! As a beginner I have to agree with Mike that thing is scary!! Every time I fly it in the flight sim. I crash. It disappears quite fast. Now your playing with power. On the youtube video it looks like the workbench will take off. :p

[PaulG-rc]

Thats cool! David glad you finally got it going.
It sounds just beautifull, I have been working around the big ones now over 30 years and I dont know why but I always love that sound :D

[beto9]

Congrats David, an old dream as I recall.
It can really suck the fuel!
One last word: Futaba

[David Janashvili]

Hi Dave,

I have the same plane with a ducted 120mm fan setup with bottom carbon fiber stiffners. You need to use the stiffners to strengthen the fuselage because it's very weak on this plane. To get the stiffners that are made for this exact plane you need to go to usarcjets.com. You can also check out the youtube video from the setup I used. It sounds like real jet.

Falcon 120 Maiden Flight "EDF Rc Jet" - YouTube

Also, you need to reinforce the plywood construction inside the fuselage with a special glue. He explains everything in the video (Parts 1,2 and 3).

Hope this helps,

David

[RichR]

Nice project David!

[Flying73]

Very nice!! Got to see this for sure.

[dhamultun]

Kevin: The most common way of getting the turbine operators certificate is to visit a jet rally. Most of the time there are instructors who are authorized at those events present to go over the your aircraft and safety equipment etc...It's kinda like doing your solo again. As I get closer to completion I'll start investigating further.

David: I have been watching BillyD for quite some time and I have been in contact with him. The glue is aerospace grade epoxy Loctite Hysol 9462. It is supposed to be really good stuff. It ain't cheap...two tubes and the application gun for about $84. :eek:
I will be reinforcing the fuse around the turbine mount area. I may even remove the back formers and make custom ones to accommodate the much larger fuel tank that is required. Thanks for the heads up! I have never seen yours at the field, would love to see it fly. :)

Alberto: Definitely FUTABA.

[dhamultun]

Thanks everyone...more to come as I progress! :D

[David Janashvili]

Next Summer.
The glue is: Aero Tech From "Deluxe Materials" Special for Jet Planes.
I bought on Toledo Show for $22usd

[Kevin Rochon]

Ha Ha!! David J. is that your surprise:confused::D

[dhamultun]

Next Summer.
The glue is: Aero Tech From "Deluxe Materials" Special for Jet Planes.
I bought on Toledo Show for $22usd

Did yours come with the special dispenser? I checked and Great Hobbies distributes it. Can you use it without the dispenser? If not by the time you add it all up it's more than the Loctite kit that Altecare sells. The Hysol kit includes the dispenser, nozzles and two 50ml of 9462 for $84. The glue alone is only $15.95 each.

[David Janashvili]

Ha Ha!! David J. is that your surprise:confused::D

No Kevin, it's too small!!!:confused:

[Andre Germain]

Will you use it in Combat? I bet it needs a generator... just kidding! teasing!

Very nice turbine, and slick airplane. Wishing you all the best.

Cheers

[dhamultun]

Will you use it in Combat? I bet it needs a generator... just kidding! teasing!

Very nice turbine, and slick airplane. Wishing you all the best.

Cheers

Thanks! I'll leave the combat for the Dogfighter. A generator wouldn't keep up, with this one you need a gas station!

[dhamultun]

Congrats David, an old dream as I recall.


As Albert mentioned this is an old dream. After seeing a turbine powered scale F-86 at the 1998 national fun fly held in St-Jean-sur-Richelieu I was hooked. The cost of a turbine back then was about $4500-5000 and they were not as reliable as they are today. Reality was I could not afford to spend that much money on a turbine. I joined the GTBA (Gas Turbine Builders Association) to learn as much as possible. In 2001 I began purchasing components and began machining some of the required parts to make my own KJ-66 gas turbine. I have not given up on making my own, but the lower cost and time factored into the decision to buy the Kingtech turbine. I do plan on finishing my KJ-66 one day. Here are some pictures of my KJ-66 components.

[Kevin Rochon]

Nice David. Do you have the bearings, I think I've heard they are supposed to be ceramic?

[dhamultun]

Nice David. Do you have the bearings, I think I've heard they are supposed to be ceramic?
I currently have a couple of set of regular angular contact bearings but they do not last as long. The best bearings are ceramic "hybrid" angular contact bearings. They are lighter and handle the high speeds and high temperatures better. Keep in mind they need to be changed every 25 hours or sooner if problems develop.

[dhamultun]

Stumbled across this on YouTube Awesome & scary!

http://youtu.be/gyJhnp0ftO4

[dhamultun]

Well Kevin looks like I'm in the same boat as you. Might give you a run for your money as the oldest thread!

Starting to put the bits and pieces of the Falcon 120 together. Took some pictures with the Wren 54 turbine that I took out of the CT-114. The Wren 54 fits this airframe much better than the K80.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/27/37a1212a6ce8d56f5b3c078d9764d730.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/27/c257202dcbcd7feba45bcbc248c4e9bd.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/27/9afc3a4dc6ebcd837e2d96fbd8e7f3e8.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/27/324fb6646ae8f9432068ba5957114369.jpg


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[Kevin Rochon]

Nice David! Do you think it could fly at WIMAC?

I remember Ruven's King Cat from BVM had the turbine pointing down it would burn the grass at Ile Perreault this one is pretty straight, do you know why the diffference?

[ChrisPol]

Nice David! Do you think it could fly at WIMAC?

I remember Ruven's King Cat from BVM had the turbine pointing down it would burn the grass at Ile Perreault this one is pretty straight, do you know why the diffference?

I had the modelbau version and the turbine mount did have some down thrust

[David Janashvili]

Hi Dave,

My New Toy YAK 130

[Kevin Rochon]

Your going to need to build a basement to the basement. Hey David put some candy in the bombs and drop them at the next funfly;)

[dhamultun]

Hi Dave,



My New Toy YAK 130


Very nice David! They fly very well so I've heard! Hope to see it fly sometime soon!


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[dhamultun]

Nice David! Do you think it could fly at WIMAC?

I remember Ruven's King Cat from BVM had the turbine pointing down it would burn the grass at Ile Perreault this one is pretty straight, do you know why the diffference?


I'm opting for no down thrust. For startup I'll have a section of stovepipe to keep the hot gases from burning the tail or the grass.

This one can fly at WIMAC. Top speed around 270 km/h and 32 km/h for landing from what I've read. For comparison my CT-114 lands at around 75 km/h.


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[dhamultun]

Well I ordered some more stuff tonight for the Falcon. Shopped all over the Internet to find what I needed and minimize the shipping costs. Ordered the 85oz fuel tank from ModellbauUk, turbine mounts from DreamworksRc. Ordered hysol 9462 kit with gun and mixing nozzles and a bunch of socket head servo screws different lengths from Thunderbolt RC shipping was free! http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/35c1e30e57135e3a66bee04b1749ea14.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/9c88861433a5e705e5dd7aea76e38db9.jpg



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[dhamultun]

Also took apart the Wren 54 turbine that I took out of CT-114. Ordered the bearings from Boca Bearing. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/933dca12d5f6921a23419d64d0f2fad9.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/3d9a3db3944176d9d5f4a95398a538d8.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/8ad152dbd9b0a58d46a26a07d270a42c.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/62116ad1a59951879c5bc35ebdaeb8a6.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/2df8559ad15fac8a01fc5a37284666c8.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/d73b1e2a5969ddca8a102ee50c8f59d5.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/5837f00a9eb0a4b5b4c2eb9c1f0690e7.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/b6c679e07d7b514c04d187e687a82426.jpg
Most of the bearing noise was coming from the front bearing. The compressor wheel was rubbing slightly on the inlet cone. Probably avoided scrapping the complete turbine.


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[Kevin Rochon]

Great that you can do the work yourself, probably save a lot of dough$

Is the grinding on the fan(where it say Wren) for balancing?

85 oz tank that takes a lot of cranking to fill, you'll need a electric pump.

[dhamultun]

Great that you can do the work yourself, probably save a lot of dough$

Is the grinding on the fan(where it say Wren) for balancing?

85 oz tank that takes a lot of cranking to fill, you'll need a electric pump.

Definitely a huge savings and a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself. The balancing will be done by a turbo repair shop that has the proper equipment and experience of balancing turbos. You are right Kevin, the grinding on the turbine wheel (fan) is from the previous balancing. It has the sacrificial ring cast for removing material at balancing.

The dubro pump is 1oz per 3 revolutions. So 3x85 = 255 cranks! Not too bad.

I did get a nice battery eliminator from CDN tire with a pump for the retracts. I found the retract pump much more work than the fuel pump. Actually one fella at the rally was filling his plane with an electric pump and forgot. It was up on a table and his phone was underneath the plane. Kero and iPhones don't mix well! He fried the phone...:eek:

[Dwight Macdonald]

The engine sure seems simple ... one compressor and one turbine stage!

[dhamultun]

The engine sure seems simple ... one compressor and one turbine stage!


They are very simple in concept. And repairing them is the easy part. What we see today has been years of R&D. The hard part was in the matching the compressor and turbine wheel. The nozzle guide vanes and turbine wheel are made from inconel, just like the big guys. This way they can withstand the stresses at high temperatures. The early turbine wheels had flaws in both the design and material properties. Most of the failures were a combined result of material and operator error. Today each turbine wheel is X-ray tested and each material lot is mechanically tested to ensure they meet real aviation standards. It is still wise to keep people at a safe distance from the side and rear of an operating turbine.

The next big step in the evolution of model jet turbines was the combustion chamber design. I was impressed with how evenly the heat marks were on the chamber. Definitely no hot spots. The bearing design and pre-load method has evolved tremendously. The full complement (which is no cage and more balls) angular contact bearings have truly made the big difference. They have stainless steel raceways with ceramic balls that can withstand the speeds and temperatures. Service intervals have been dramatically improved. Lubrication method has also evolved along with the types and amount of oil added to the fuel. Electronics and self-start have made them user friendly.

The latest turbines are even easier to install and operate. Full kero-start no propane. All electronics and valves are built into the engine. Just connect one fuel line from your tank, one 3S lipo and the servo wire to the receiver!


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[Ricardo]

Are there Axial turbines for RC? Or are they all Radial?

[dhamultun]

Are there Axial turbines for RC? Or are they all Radial?


The commercial ones are all radial. The experimental hobbyists have made axial ones with several stages. Not sure how well they work.

Here is an example:
https://youtu.be/PFnZJeHc-KY


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[dhamultun]

Took off the turbine wheel today. Thought I would put the my KJ-66 components next to the Wren 54 Mk IV ones for a comparison. Pretty big difference between the two! http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/02/c51db1613c6b8ab84ea16acc7e40a231.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/02/c18017f2022405415a7573164c66b19e.jpg


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[David Janashvili]

My Wren 54 Turboprop

[Kevin Rochon]

I guess there is a gear box(green) to reduce the RPM?

[David Janashvili]

I guess there is a gear box(green) to reduce the RPM?

Yes Kevin, the green one

[dhamultun]

My Wren 54 Turboprop


Awesome! Wanna see the inside?http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/ba6b164f510cfee36e26a76f2e08a09f.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/703b168dc335cbb01e6848a32cf42444.jpg


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[dhamultun]

Got my bearings in the mail yesterday! http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/0bb8aff4e0574620aeff94fa4f93fbcf.jpg


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[dhamultun]

Took apart the combustion chamber so I could clean it properly. To make sure the fuel ring and needles weren't blocked I hooked up some propane/butane and lit it up. No blockages and even flames!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/728d3d82ab48979ac9e8345a711a0377.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/1f755cc20f4a68c307588b2cbf2408ec.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/5138c82588f46aacce5c9529ff789d74.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/66db996254116c4ab7c54e3e121521ea.jpg


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[Kevin Rochon]

I that glow plug a #8 OS?

You could use that in case of power outage or cake candles:D

[dhamultun]

I that glow plug a #8 OS?

You could use that in case of power outage or cake candles:D


Yep, #8 with two coils teased out a little to ignite the propane. It does make for a nice lantern!


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[Dwight Macdonald]

So is there one burner for propane and one for kerosene?

[dhamultun]

So is there one burner for propane and one for kerosene?


The one I lit is for the kerosene. The other one is for propane. It only has two large nozzles.


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[dhamultun]

Started fitting the tank. Removed one from former and modified the two towards the back. Bloody fibreglass edges are sharp, cuts skin like a saw.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/5f55487f589fd656ee3a78cf2b05f671.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/81181dd5584b6186d0d327f34ef1e94a.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/ea73a9909217c0d234568cb96ebebd89.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/c5d283a7bbf9e051f5594366c83f8ad4.jpg


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[dhamultun]

Saw this earlier and it was very appropriate a few moments ago! http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160207/46e8d4f123b54eda7c89359d56f72534.jpg


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[Sempai-mj]

Put some #%#¥£€%# electrical tape over the edges. :D
It's a bandaid solution!

[dhamultun]

Put some #%#¥£€%# electrical tape over the edges. :D
It's a bandaid solution!


LMAO! Good idea. The tape is on my wound instead. Didn't realize till it was too late. Sanded down all the sharp edges.


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[Michael O'Bree]

As a noobie, who needs to build, buy or fly ?! When spring comes, I think I will just watch in wonder - Cardens, Falcons, and Lord knows what other surprises are around the corner or waiting to be reflown.

[zorba]

Stick around and your'e in for a treat...

[beto9]

Stick around and your'e in for a treat...

I am preparing my camera....

[dhamultun]

Hopefully David J will have his turboprop ready to roll!


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