Team GH Lipo

[Kevin Rochon]

It seems there is a new law preventing from getting LIPO into Canada through reg USPS anyone knows about this.

I was looking at those Lipo from GH anyone has experience with them. Some are not so bad in pricing? Rich?;)

http://www.greathobbies.com/search/results/

[Jeremy Cartlidge]

Some background and the current USPS Rules. Additional restrictions are likely. Note that Transport Canada participated in the study after the Dubai crash.

_______________________________________________

Bloomberg News, Dec 2011.

Batteries used in mobile phones and laptop computers, which can spontaneously combust, will destroy an average of one U.S.-registered cargo jet every other year, a government analysis has concluded.

Shipments of lithium batteries have been suspected of contributing to two U.S. cargo-jet accidents since 2006. They aren’t treated as hazardous, and the U.S. Congress is debating whether to exempt them from stricter rules. Projected growth in battery production increases the odds of fires, the study by U.S., Canadian and U.K. researchers found.

A United Parcel Service Inc. Boeing DC-8 that was destroyed by fire on Feb. 7, 2006, in Philadelphia contained “numerous” lithium batteries in computers and other devices, a National Transportation Safety Board investigation found.

Batteries used in mobile phones and laptop computers, which can spontaneously combust, will destroy an average of one U.S.-registered cargo jet every other year, a government analysis has concluded. Shipments of lithium batteries that size have been linked to two U.S. cargo-jet accidents since 2006. The batteries aren’t presently treated as hazardous and Congress is debating whether to exempt them from stricter rules.

“It’s like a fireworks display,” Jerry Back, senior fire protection engineer at Hughes Associates Inc. in Baltimore, said about burning batteries in an interview. The firm conducts fire research for government and private clients.

“They explode,” Back said. “They shoot fireballs. They emit smoke. Sometimes they spray flaming liquid.”

The study, commissioned in part by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, was released as government investigators are trying to determine why the lithium battery on a General Motors Co. (GM) Chevrolet Volt car caught fire following a crash test in May.

The U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration in January 2010 proposed stricter rules for handling airborne battery shipments. The rules remain under review at the U.S. Department of Transportation.

The Republican-controlled House earlier this year voted to block the rules. The Democratic-controlled Senate hasn’t acted on the measure.

Costs Disputed

Manufacturers including Apple Inc. (AAPL) and Panasonic Corp. (6752) say additional regulation would cost them $1.1 billion a year and isn’t warranted, according to PRBA-The Rechargeable Battery Association, a Washington-based trade association. The hazardous materials administration estimated the cost of its rule at $70.2 million over 10 years.

“We have to take seriously this risk and we have to take seriously the way in which we package and transport these materials,” Lee Collins, executive vice president of the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations, a Washington-based group representing five pilot unions, said in an interview.

The crash-risk analysis, which was posted on the FAA’s website in September without publicity, highlights the dangers of some types of lithium batteries as cargo on passenger planes, Russ Leighton, safety coordinator for the Teamsters Airline Division, said in an interview. The Teamsters represent pilots at Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings (AAWW)’ Atlas Air Inc. and ABX Air Inc.

Passenger Plane Incidents

Rechargeable lithium batteries can be carried as cargo in passenger planes.

Non-rechargeable lithium batteries, which are made differently and resist halon extinguishers, were banned as cargo in passenger planes in 2004. That type of battery is used in hearing aids, garage-door openers and small electronic devices.

Since then, there have been 17 reported fire incidents with lithium batteries of both types on passenger planes, all but one involving passengers who carried the batteries or packed them in luggage, according to the FAA.

The agency in 2008 barred passengers from carrying spare lithium batteries in checked luggage. Last year it recommended to passenger airlines that battery shipments be placed in areas with fire-suppression systems.

Philadelphia, Dubai

A United Parcel Service Inc. (UPS) Boeing (BA) DC-8 that was destroyed by fire on Feb. 7, 2006, in Philadelphia contained “numerous” lithium batteries in computers and other devices, a National Transportation Safety Board investigation found. The three crew members escaped as flames engulfed the jet shortly after landing.

The safety board said it couldn’t identify the cause of the fire. The investigation focused on batteries.

On Sept. 3, 2010, fire broke out on a UPS Boeing 747-400 jetliner 22 minutes after it left Dubai. The plane, which crashed at a military base, was carrying more than 81,000 lithium batteries, according to a report by the General Civil Aviation Authority of the United Arab Emirates. Both pilots died.

Lithium batteries burn so hot that if one in a shipment catches fire it will ignite the others, research at the FAA’s fire safety branch in Atlantic City, New Jersey, has shown.

Both types of lithium batteries will continue burning after being blanketed by halon fire-suppression systems, according to the FAA research. The halon can prevent fires involving rechargeable batteries from spreading to adjacent cargo. It can’t stop the spread of non-rechargeable battery fires, according to the research.

UPS Challenges Findings

UPS disputes the study’s prediction of more accidents, because there’s no proof the fires on its jets started in batteries, Mike Mangeot, a UPS spokesman, said in an e-mailed statement. More research must be done before adopting stricter rules, Mangeot said.

The rechargeable battery association agrees, George Kerchner, its executive director, said in an interview. The group represents Apple, Panasonic and tool-maker Stanley Black & Decker Inc. (SWK)

The group opposes the hazardous materials administration’s proposal to require better testing of battery safety and improved packaging to prevent short-circuiting.

The House provision, approved as part of a bill setting policy guidelines for the FAA, prohibits any rules stricter than those set by the United Nations. House and Senate negotiators haven’t yet reached agreement on the FAA bill.

Shippers Blamed

In a June 17 letter to Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, airlines, battery manufacturers and electronics firms urged officials to strictly enforce the UN guidelines on safe manufacturing and testing of batteries.

“The failure of some shippers to comply with these requirements has been the root cause of virtually all of reported air cargo transport incidents,” the letter said.

The letter was written by Kerchner’s group and others including Airlines for America, the Washington trade group representing the largest U.S. carriers; the Consumer Electronics Association, the Arlington, Virginia-based association whose members include Apple and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT); and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the largest U.S. business-advocacy group.

Production of lithium-battery cells grew from 625 million in 2000 to 4.4 billion in 2010, according to the study, which was completed in September.

The total is expected to almost double by 2020, reaching about 8 billion, it said. About half of lithium batteries are shipped on U.S. aircraft, the report said.

‘Time Bomb’

As a result of that growth, statistical models predicted that there would be 4.5 accidents due to lithium-battery fires from 2011 to 2020, the report said.

Battery-related accidents are projected to cost $395 million during the decade, the study said.

The report was commissioned by the FAA, Transport Canada and England’s Civil Aviation Authority after last year’s Dubai crash. It says that lithium batteries “likely contributed” to that incident and the one in Philadelphia in 2006.

The study projected accidents only for U.S. cargo carriers. An Asiana Airlines Inc. (020560) cargo 747-400 flying from Seoul to Shanghai crashed into the East China Sea on Sept. 28 after the crew reported a fire on board. The jet’s cargo included lithium batteries, according to South Korea’s Ministry of Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs.

The report shows the need for stronger regulations and enforcement on battery labeling and handling, Leighton said.

“You kind of have this time bomb waiting to go off,” Leighton said.

_________________________________________________


USPS Rules

349 Miscellaneous Hazardous Materials
(Hazard Class 9)
349.1 Definition
A miscellaneous hazardous material is a substance or article that presents a hazard during transportation but does not meet the definition of any other hazard class.

Miscellaneous hazardous materials include:

Any material that has an anesthetic, noxious, or other similar property that could cause extreme annoyance or discomfort to a flight crew member.
Any elevated temperature material, hazardous substance, hazardous waste (other than Division 6.2 medical waste), or marine pollutant.
Examples of miscellaneous hazardous materials (not all of which are mailable) include solid dry ice, primary (non–rechargeable) lithium batteries, magnetized materials, elevated temperature substances, environmentally hazardous substances, life–saving appliances (i.e., automobile air–bags), and asbestos.

349.2 Mailability
International Mail. All miscellaneous hazardous materials are prohibited, except for certain magnetized materials as permitted in 349.242a and IMM 136g.
Domestic Mail. A miscellaneous hazardous material that can be reclassed as an ORM–D material and renamed as a consumer commodity is permitted. Additionally, dry ice and magnetized materials are permitted within the specific limits provided in 349.23 and 349.24.
349.21 Nonmailable Class 9 Materials
The following materials are prohibited:

All Class 9 materials that cannot qualify as an ORM–D material, except dry ice and magnetized materials.
All magnetized materials that have a measurable magnetic field strength greater than 0.00525 gauss at 15 feet.
For air transportation, all magnetized materials that can cause a compass deviation at a distance of 7 feet or more.
In domestic mail via air transportation, dry ice in quantities exceeding 5 pounds per mailpiece.
For domestic mailings only, primary (nonrechargeable) lithium batteries are prohibited via air transportation if the batteries are shipped without the equipment they operate (individual batteries). Lithium batteries are prohibited in international mailings regardless of packaging.
349.22 Mailable Class 9 Materials
349.221 Primary Lithium (Nonrechargeable) Cells and Batteries
For domestic mailings only, small consumer-type primary lithium cells or batteries (lithium metal or lithium alloy) like those used to power cameras and flashlights are mailable domestically under the following conditions. See 622 or IMM 136 when mailing batteries internationally or to APO, FPO, or DPO destinations.

General. The following restrictions apply to the mailability of all primary lithium (nonrechargeable) cells and batteries:
Each cell must contain no more than 1.0 gram (g) of lithium content per cell.
Each battery must contain no more than 2.0 g aggregate lithium content per battery.
Each cell or battery must meet the requirements of each test in the UN Manual of Tests and Criteria, part III, and subsection 38.3 as referenced in DOT’s hazardous materials regulation at 49 CFR 171.7.
All outer packages must have a complete delivery and return address.
Installed in Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of primary cells or batteries properly installed in the equipment they operate:
The batteries installed in the equipment must be protected from damage and short circuit.
The equipment must be equipped with an effective means of preventing it from being turned on or activated.
The equipment must be cushioned to prevent movement or damage and be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
The mailpiece must not exceed 11 pounds.
Mailed With Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of primary cells or batteries shipped with (but not installed in) the device or equipment being mailed:
The shipment cannot contain more batteries than the number needed to operate the device.
The primary lithium cells and batteries must be packaged separately and cushioned to prevent movement or damage.
The shipment must be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Package Contains Primary Lithium Batteries.”
The mailpiece must not exceed 11 pounds.
Mailed Without Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of primary cells or batteries without equipment (individual batteries):
The primary lithium cells and batteries must be mailed in “the originally sealed packaging.”
The sealed packages of batteries must be separated and cushioned to prevent short circuit, movement, or damage.
The shipment must be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
They may only be sent via surface transportation.
The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Surface Mail Only, Primary Lithium Batteries—Forbidden for Transportation Aboard Passenger Aircraft.”
The mailpiece must not exceed 5 pounds.
349.222 Secondary Lithium-ion (Rechargeable) Cells and Batteries
For domestic mailings only, small consumer-type lithium-ion cells and batteries like those used to power cell phones and laptop computers are mailable domestically under the following conditions. See 622 or IMM 136 when mailing batteries internationally or to and from APO, FPO, or DPO destinations.

General. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailability of all secondary (rechargeable) lithium-ion cells and batteries:
The lithium content must not exceed 20 Wh (Watt-hour rating) per cell.
The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 100 Wh per battery.
Each cell or battery must meet the requirements of each test in the UN Manual of Tests and Criteria, part III, and subsection 38.3 as referenced in DOT’s hazardous materials regulation at 49 CFR 171.7.
The mailpiece must not contain more than three batteries.
All outer packages must have a complete delivery and return address.
Installed in Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of secondary cells or batteries properly installed in equipment they operate:
The batteries installed in the equipment must be protected from damage and short circuit.
The equipment must be equipped with an effective means of preventing it from being turned on or activated.
The equipment must be cushioned to prevent movement or damage and be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail. The shipment must be mailed in a strong outer package.
Mailed With Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of secondary cells or batteries shipped with (but not installed in) the device or equipment being mailed:
The shipment cannot contain more batteries than the number needed to operate the device up to three batteries.
The secondary lithium cells and batteries must be packaged separately and cushioned to prevent movement or damage.
The shipment must be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Package Contains Lithium-ion Batteries (no lithium metal).”
Mailed Without Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of secondary cells or batteries without equipment (individual batteries):
The secondary lithium cells and batteries must be mailed in “the originally sealed packaging”, and the package may contain no more than three batteries.
The sealed packages of batteries must be separated and cushioned to prevent short circuit, movement, or damage.
The shipment must be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Package Contains Lithium-ion Batteries (no lithium metal).”
349.23 Dry Ice
349.231 General
Dry ice is primarily used to keep other items cool. The items being cooled can be either mailable hazardous materials or nonhazardous items, such as medical specimens or foods.

349.232 Characteristics and Precautions
Dry ice (carbon dioxide solid) is produced by expanding liquid carbon dioxide to vapor and compacting the material into blocks. When dry ice converts (dissipates) to a gaseous form, it takes in heat from its surroundings. The resulting gas is heavier than air and can cause suffocation in confined areas as air is displaced. When dry ice is enclosed in a thick metal or other restrictive type of container, internal pressure builds up and could cause the container to rupture or explode. Mailpieces containing dry ice must be handled with care because its very low temperature (about –110° F
or –79° C) can cause severe burns to skin upon direct contact.

349.233 Dry Ice Mailability
Dry ice is permitted to be mailed when it is used as a refrigerant to cool the content of a mailable hazardous or nonhazardous material. Packages containing dry ice must be packed in containers that permit the release of carbon dioxide gas and conform to 49 CFR 173.217 and 175.10(a)(13). Mailpieces containing dry ice are subject to the following conditions, as applicable:

International Mail. Dry ice is prohibited.
Domestic Mail via Air Transportation. Dry ice is permitted in quantities of up to 5 pounds per mailpiece. Mailpieces containing dry ice are subject to the conditions for Packaging Instruction 9A in Appendix C, as applicable.
Domestic Mail via Surface Transportation. A mailpiece sent via surface transportation (i.e., at Standard Mail rates) may contain more than
5 pounds of dry ice. Mailpiece preparation is subject to the conditions for Packaging Instruction 9A in Appendix C.
Note: A mailpiece that is prepared for surface transportation must not, under any circumstances, be routed via air transportation.

349.24 Magnetized Materials
A magnetized material is not classified within any of the nine hazard classes. Such material is regulated as a hazardous material only if offered for carriage on air transportation and when it has a magnetic field strength capable of causing the deviation of aircraft instruments.

349.241 Definition
A magnetized material is any article that has a magnetic field strength capable of causing the deviation of aircraft instruments. A magnetized material is regulated as a hazardous material when it is presented for air transportation and has a measurable magnetic field strength greater than 0.00525 gauss at 15 feet. Magnetized materials include magnets and magnetized devices such as magnetrons and light meters of sufficient strength to possibly cause erroneous aircraft compass readings. If the maximum field strength observed at a distance of 7 feet is less than
0.002 gauss or there is no significant compass deflection (less than
0.5 degree), the article is not restricted as a magnetized material.

349.242 Mailability
Magnetized materials that have a magnetic field strength of 0.002 gauss or more at a distance of 7 feet from any point on the surface of the outer packaging are mailable via air transportation if properly packaged. Magnetized materials that have a field strength greater than 0.00525 gauss at 15 feet are nonmailable under any conditions. The following requirements also apply:

International Mail. Magnetized materials are prohibited except for those that cannot cause a compass deviation at a distance of 7 feet or more. See 622.4.
Domestic Mail via Air Transportation. Magnetized materials that can cause a compass deviation at 7 feet or more are prohibited. A magnetized material is mailable if it is not capable of causing a compass deviation at a distance of 7 feet or more. Mailpiece preparation is subject to the conditions for Packaging Instruction 9B in Appendix C. The address side of the outer packaging must bear the magnetized material warning label shown in Exhibit 349.242b.
Domestic Mail via Surface Transportation. Magnetized material is not regulated as a hazardous material when transported via surface transportation.
Exhibit 349.242b

Warning Label for Magnetized Materials



349.3 Packaging
For mailable Class 9 materials, the following packaging requirements as detailed in the Packaging Instructions in Appendix C apply:

Packaging Instruction 9A must be followed for mailable quantities of dry ice.
Packaging Instruction 9B must be followed for mailable types of magnetized materials.
Packaging Instruction 9C must be followed for Class 9 miscellaneous hazardous materials that are eligible to be reclassed as mailable ORM–D materials.
Packaging Instruction 9D must be followed for lithium and lithium-ion cells and batteries.
349.4 Marking and Documentation
For air transportation, a mailable Class 9 material that can be reclassed as an ORM-D material must be plainly and durably marked on the address side with “ORM-D AIR” immediately following or below the proper shipping name (Consumer Commodity). A shipper’s declaration for dangerous goods that is prepared in triplicate must be affixed to the outside of the mailpiece.

For surface transportation, a mailable material that can be reclassed as an ORM-D material must be plainly and durably marked on the address side with “Surface Mail Only” and “ORM-D” immediately following or below the proper shipping name (Consumer Commodity).

The specific marking and documentation requirements for dry ice and magnetized materials are specified in USPS Packaging Instruction 9A and USPS Packaging Instruction 9B in Appendix C, as applicable.

[beto9]

Holy cow, Jeremy!
Was that a yes, a no or a maybe?

[zorba]

It seems there is a new law preventing from getting LIPO into Canada through reg USPS anyone knows about this.

I was looking at those Lipo from GH anyone has experience with them. Some are not so bad in pricing? Rich?;)

http://www.greathobbies.com/search/results/

Kevin the link shows paint only....

[Kevin Rochon]

USPS class 9 : Lithium batteries are prohibited in international mailings regardless of packaging.

Well check them out at GH ; product index; batteries ; Lithium power pack... then choose the Team GH brand.

[JimmyG]

I tried them and not very impressed. I picked up some 4 cell 5000mah packs and all 3 of them puffed after charging. One of them puffed so much so it’s unusable. :mad:

1 pack may have been defective but all 3 ???.

I got them last winter and didn’t do anything with them until just recently. I will try sending Great Hobbies an email any way and see what happens.

[Burning Head]

Thet are not one of my recommandation too:)I use one 3000mAh 50c in a EDF 70mm, she puff too after 5 fly only:eek:

[Kevin Rochon]

Well that's a bummer!:mad:

I guess Rich is right get a few ThuderPower, more $$, but charge them fast at the field. So I need a very powerful charger and the "G" word:D

[zorba]

Kevin I get my TP's from Draganfly (rctoys.com) here in Canada.
Good prices too.

Cheers

[zorba]

USPS class 9 : Lithium batteries are prohibited in international mailings regardless of packaging.

Well check them out at GH ; product index; batteries ; Lithium power pack... then choose the Team GH brand.

I got Lithium bats from HH via USPS.

[mdauth]

Also a set of 25c 4s 3900mah TP is $220 vs $80 for the Gen Ace, I have some TP and I can tell you the Gen Ace are very comparable for the money. Now we just need to find a way to bring them in.

[zorba]

Where you get your prices from Mike?
This one is less than 200 and is free shipping from Canada

http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-parts/TP3850-4SPP65/RC-PARTS-THUNDER-POWER-4-CELL-LITHIUM-BATTERIES.html

[mdauth]

Where you get your prices from Mike?
This one is less than 200 and is free shipping from Canada

http://www.rctoys.com/rc-toys-and-parts/TP3850-4SPP65/RC-PARTS-THUNDER-POWER-4-CELL-LITHIUM-BATTERIES.html

Bill we need 2 to fly the Slick (8s)

[zorba]

My bad ....sorry. carry on....

[Kevin Rochon]

Hey I see they (RC toys) have the TP Duo for 270$ compared to 330 at GH!

I have someone in our branch in TTO who's going to pick up my plane and other stuff at AJ Hobbies, our branch is 15 min away and we ship back and forth every week between each other.

So far AJH has very good prices I'll see if I can get that charger at the same price?

[zorba]

They have good prices and some items if not all are free shipping. Also they are in Canada no duties.

[RichR]

GH lipos = &^#$%#!!!!!! :p TP or Gens Ace, as was mentionned above, is the way to go.

[dmontesano]

I bought 4 GH Lipos 2S 2000mAh more than 1 year ago. They ALL puffed after the 2nd or 3rd use. Pretty disapointing when you think I could have gotten better performance from a less expensive hobby king brand.

Waste of money !