Capacitors.

[beto9]

Some companies offer capacitor assemblies for your electric setup.
Any comments on this?
http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=NOV5626
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/cc-cap-pack.html

[RichR]

I've tested the Castle CapPack on my new funjet. Without the CapPack I was seeing around 0.52 volts (6.2%) of ripple during static, when I installed the CapPack I was below 2%. Either way, the setup would have been fine, but for $19.99 and the fact that I had it laying around, I decided to ease the strain on my ESC. You can see it on the right side of the pic below:

[beto9]

I've tested the Castle CapPack on my new funjet. Without the CapPack I was seeing around 0.52 volts (6.2%) of ripple during static, when I installed the CapPack I was below 2%. Either way, the setup would have been fine, but for $19.99 and the fact that I had it laying around, I decided to ease the strain on my ESC. You can see it on the right side of the pic below:

You are alive! You are back! And the Funjet is back! Yihaaaaa....

[RichR]

You are alive! You are back! And the Funjet is back! Yihaaaaa....

I feel half-dead living in this 'Urban Sprawl H*ll, a.k.a Mississauga'. Atleast I live within a stone's throw of the new Great Hobbies store on Argentia. I am also surrounded by 3 major GTA flying clubs, the most active being 'Mississauga RC Flyers', 5 mins drive from my place. On the left side of the flight line, within approx 200 feet, the city built a dog park/obstacle course!!! :eek: As far as I'm concerned, I won't be flying any of my fast planes there, will save them for the weekends when I visit WIMAC! Given the absence of trees, notably due to the abundance of farmland, I find myself always flying in a significant amount of wind, moreso than at Wimac. Having the surrounding trees and tall bushes at Wimac are definitely a plus in my book. Now if only it could warm up a bit.

To keep this thread on topic, the CapPack is great, you can also build your own quite easily. You can find the relevant Capacitors at Digikey.com, 220uF 50V. Not many people have large or high powered electric planes at Wimac however, mostly relevant to the Heli guys.

[beto9]

....mostly relevant to the Heli guys.

That's what I thought....

[Sempai-mj]

I feel half-dead living in this 'Urban Sprawl H*ll, a.k.a Mississauga'. Atleast I live within a stone's throw of the new Great Hobbies store on Argentia. I am also surrounded by 3 major GTA flying clubs, the most active being 'Mississauga RC Flyers', 5 mins drive from my place. On the left side of the flight line, within approx 200 feet, the city built a dog park/obstacle course!!! :eek: As far as I'm concerned, I won't be flying any of my fast planes there, will save them for the weekends when I visit WIMAC! Given the absence of trees, notably due to the abundance of farmland, I find myself always flying in a significant amount of wind, moreso than at Wimac. Having the surrounding trees and tall bushes at Wimac are definitely a plus in my book. Now if only it could warm up a bit.

To keep this thread on topic, the CapPack is great, you can also build your own quite easily. You can find the relevant Capacitors at Digikey.com, 220uF 50V. Not many people have large or high powered electric planes at Wimac however, mostly relevant to the Heli guys.

Hey Rich, nice to hear from you, when you coming for visit?
Mississauga is spelt: Massivesoggy!:D

[dhamultun]

Nice clean setup as usual! Can't wait to see it fly!

[zorba]

Some companies offer capacitor assemblies for your electric setup.
Any comments on this?
http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=NOV5626
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/cc-cap-pack.html

I used to use the one Great Hobbies sells on my helis. Just plug it in empty slot on the receiver.
Spektrum sells them also.

Nice idea though. Nice to hear from you Rich, you too Albert.

Cheers

[RichR]

Hey Mike, David, Billy, I'll be there soon, once the weather improves. You guys must be gearing up for an action filled summer! :)

[Andrew Fernie]

Those are different products. The CC is for use on the input power to the ESC and the Great hobbies is for use on the receiver (effectively on the BEC output of the ESC). I am surprised that the CC approach does very much given the size of wire we use (should be low resistance), and the high current draw, but if it works, great.

It makes more sense to me on the receiver to help with spikes from the servo.

Rich, your installation is amazingly clean. Did you just remove a small bit of insulation at the bottom of the wires and push the remaining insulation out of the way before soldering?

I am sure that you can get the capacitors at Access - 220uF/50V is nothing special. The nice part of the CC unit is the PC board - that makes it easy to hookup.

Andrew

[RichR]

I should have went into a bit more detail as to the modifications I made to my Castle Ice Lite 100 esc. I removed the standard 10 gauge wire that comes with the esc on both the power cable side and motor side, I find the 10 gauge to be extremely heavy. I replaced the power wires with TQ Racing 13 gauge made from 44 gauge pure copper stranding, 1296 strands! 10 gauge is 10 gauge (will probably always be superior to 13 gauge) but I am pulling 93 amps static, so the TQ handles it just fine. In flight my amps will be less. I used Deans Wet noodle on the motor side shortened to the bare minimum needed with Castle 5.5mm bullets to mate esc to motor. The solder I used is Cardas Quad Eutectic, Ultra pure, tin/lead/silver/ copper. Apparently, the Ice 75 and Ice 100 seem to be the same controller, just difference gauge wire! 100s have been used to 150 amps successfully with adequate cooling.

I like Digikey because of the huge selection of capacitors, low ESR is what I would use. Access most probably has them, but I've never known the source of the components they have, always seemed kind of a surplus store to me. I do like Active Electronics on Decarie Blvd though. In the pic above, the CapPack hadn't been soldered to the TQ wire yet. I removed the silicon, and tinned the wire with eutectic solder, tinned the tab and then soldered together. Cardas Quad Eutectic always has a mirror finish, being a eutectic solder it goes from liquid to solid and vice versa instantly.

[RichR]

YGE from Germany had add-on capacitor packs before Castle Creations:

http://www.yge.de/artikel.php?search=ygecaps5

http://www.yge.de/artikel.php?search=ygecaps9

This winter I ordered two controllers from YGE through Elektrorc.com, and I have to tell you, I was truly impressed at how their controllers would run and startup motor and prop combinations that my Castle controllers had a hard time running. A german magazine did a review, placing the YGE as producing the most power for a given setup and kontronik as being a bit more efficient. Rotorquest here in Toronto sells them through their online store.

[Tarek Hassoune]

Hey Richy
Nice to hear from u C U soon

[beto9]

You brainy guys always send me to Wikipedia....
Eutectic alloys have two or more materials and have a eutectic composition. When a non-eutectic alloy solidifies, its components solidify at different temperatures, exhibiting a plastic melting range. A eutectic alloy solidifies at a single, sharp temperature. Conversely, when a well mixed, eutectic alloy melts it does so at a single temperature. The phase transformations that occur while solidifying a given alloy can be understood by drawing a vertical line from the liquid phase to the solid phase on a phase diagram.
Some uses include:
eutectic alloys for soldering, composed of tin (Sn), lead (Pb) and sometimes silver (Ag) or gold (Au)
casting alloys, such as aluminium-silicon and cast iron (at the composition for an austenite-cementite eutectic in the iron-carbon system)
one method used by the semiconductor industry to bond silicon chips to gold-plated substrates is to induce a silicon-gold eutectic through the application of ultrasonic energy to the chip
brazing, where diffusion can remove alloying elements from the joint, so that eutectic melting is only possible early in the brazing process
temperature response, i.e. Wood's metal and Field's metal for fire sprinklers
non-toxic mercury replacements, such as galinstan
experimental glassy metals, with extremely high strength and corrosion resistance
eutectic alloys of sodium and potassium (NaK) that are liquid at room temperature and used as coolant in experimental fast neutron nuclear reactors.
So... how many of those capacitors you recommend have to be put in parallel to achieve the same effect?
And yes, they were for two different uses, one to protect the ESC and the other to protect the receiver from BEC variations. I think the last is the most interesting to use.
And I also wonder why CC sells them as an add on instead of providing them directly into de ESC.
Talking about CC... it worries me the constant software and ROM updates they issue for their products... any comments?

[Burning Head]

Good news to know you will back in MTL soon Rich:)

[RichR]

Hey Tarek, Salut Richard :) Albert, you bring up a valid point, just the other day they released firmware version 4.00, then they asked us to stop using version 4.00 and download version 4.01 because of a bug. In a way I suppose it's good, because they evolve the functionality of they're esc's over time and you can update your old esc. On the other hand, a $50 Phoenix 10 amp speed control had a hard time spinning up a gws 8x4 DD prop on a Hacker A10-9L for years, people would complain and fuss but nothing worked, some reverted to firmware v1.55 which solved the problem but the startup jitters continued, until 2 weeks ago! Firmware v4.01 has significantly improved the startup and I am happy to say it starts up perfectly for me everytime. All that to say that a cheapo $6 chinese esc starts up the same setup perfectly everytime, albeit probably not with the same effiency or power, go figure!

[RichR]

Another thing to note about the capacitors in our esc's, they will lose capacitance as they age and are exposed to high heat. I've seen some esc's in planes that are 'old'. Just desolder and resolder new ones, so cheap it's worth it! Make sure to use a good soldering iron with sufficient heat set at right temp. Please wash your hands after soldering, I've seen people eating cookies in between soldering without washing their hands. Lead is dangerous if consumed and accumulates in your body, it's a matter of micrograms that can make you sick. Lead-free solder is ok, but generally requires a higher melting point, the best lead-free I've tried is Johnson IA-423 Eutectic.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/solder_johnson.html

[dmontesano]

Hey RICH !!!!

Great to here you're still alive !
Just one question....what did you use to measure the 6.2% ripple on your ESC ?

Hope to see you at the field soon.

Dan

[RichR]

Hey RICH !!!!

Great to here you're still alive !
Just one question....what did you use to measure the 6.2% ripple on your ESC ?

Hope to see you at the field soon.

Dan

Hey Danny!!!

If you're running a Castle Ice controller you can just pull the the average and peak ripple voltage right off the controller's Data logger using your Castle link. Make sure to use a fully charged battery. If you have access to an oscilloscope, you can measure the ripple voltage from peak to peak. As far as voltmeters go, most measure the root mean square, but there is a way of doing it using the AC scale. But that is dependent on the meter, too much hassle! If you are not using an Ice controller, adding the CapPack will benefit the controller by smoothing out the ripple anyways.

[dmontesano]

Of Course ! The data logger has all the info.
I thought you may have used an oscilloscope, or something like that.

P.S. I had a lot of fun with the dogfighter, but I had a mild crash when the prop and motor started to vibrate. It seemed that I only needed to tighten the mounting screws and change my prop to fix the problem. After doing this Tarek held up the nose nice and high. When I gave throttle the entire front end blew up into 3 pieces. After trying to figure out what had happend I discovered that the plastic motor mounting holes (the plastic threaded part that the motor is screwed into) was split for both sides.

Bad luck, I guess. Problem is its a big hastle to remove the mounts for replacment. Its glued onto the fuselage. Tarek now has spare parts for his dogfighter :)

Cheers,
Dan

[beto9]

I have the feeling the Dogfighter is a magnet for problems.
I still have mine in A1 condition because... not flown yet.
The day approaches when it will have to deliver or fold!

[RichR]

For anyone wanting a free castle link to verify their ripple and other parameters, just PM me, the other day I bought 3 new Castle controllers and I received a free coupon inside each of them for a castle link. I can send you the free code that you use on the castle site and they'll ship it to you.

P.S.
I'm using a new O.S. Brushless motor in mine. From what I've observed, it is imperative to have the 4 thrust line adjustment screws portruding from the back of the motor mount plate atleast 2mm, all four must make contact with the plastic mounting brackets and then the 2 screws that thread into the bracket must be tightened until all 6 screws are level. I'm flying my Dog at 140+ mph(In a steep dive) on 4s and no problems, also very important to balance the prop on this plane, took me two hours to balance the blades and then the hub! I used a magnetic balancer, smooth as silk, no vibration at over 800 watts of power. The biggest pain for me was to get the wing parallel to the horizontal stab, it's perfect took me over 2 hours of triming and sanding elapor.

[dmontesano]

When you have a chance I'd like to hear your opinion on the OS electic motors. I remember when they came out, but havn't heard much about them.

[RichR]

When you have a chance I'd like to hear your opinion on the OS electic motors. I remember when they came out, but havn't heard much about them.

Sounds good! I'll start a new thread on them as to not hijack Al's Capacitor thread. Just have to make dinner and then I'll take pics of my 2 O.S. motors and my observations! Stay tuned :)

[Tarek Hassoune]

Hey Richy
I'm fling mine with 3s multiplex folding prop 9x7
If I use 4s do I have to change anything in my setup

[Burning Head]

I have one Q: too Rich:) how range my tx thro curve vs a brushless max efficacity spinning, but I will waite until your new thread:cool:

[zorba]

Hey Rich take a look at this and let me know what you think?
http://www.wimac.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=31236#post31236

cheers

[dhamultun]

Just watched this video interview with Castle Creations about timing. No details really just explains the concept somewhat.

http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blog/2012/04/11/timing-and-escs-can-you-get-more-power/

[Burning Head]

very honness answer from CC about the cheap brushless on the market, no sh..t composant in ther brand. so if i have a ESC for my EDF , the high timming is not usefull to programe on... and if the efficacy is at 86% should I programe the throt curve high point at 86% too:confused: because I presume when I use 100% the difference betwin it's a lost of amp from my lipo with out any more powers. Sorry Albert:)

[RichR]

very honness answer from CC about the cheap brushless on the market, no sh..t composant in ther brand. so if i have a ESC for my EDF , the high timming is not usefull to programe on... and if the efficacy is at 86% should I programe the throt curve high point at 86% too:confused: because I presume when I use 100% the difference betwin it's a lost of amp from my lipo with out any more powers. Sorry Albert:)


No, you should leave your throttle curve linear and at 100% What they mean by efficiency is the motor's ability to transform it's input power into output power, energy lost as heat affects all motors, some more than others. With that being said, brushless motors as a system with esc/prop/battery have a range that is their most highly efficient, in terms of current consumption related to flight time.

As far as timing goes, if your motor manufacturer publishes the motor timing, then use that. If not, you'll have to experiment, but I start with low advance on high Kv Inrunner types and Medium advance on moderate Kv Outrunner types.

[RichR]

Hey Richy
I'm fling mine with 3s multiplex folding prop 9x7
If I use 4s do I have to change anything in my setup

Tarek,

On the stock Himaxx Motor on 4s you'll have to drop down to an APC 8x8, you'll probably not notice a huge amount of speed gain, on this type of plane, the thrust from the bigger 9 inch diameter prop would be better. If you want real speed out of the Dog, get an inrunner at around 1900 Kv and power it with 5s 2250mAh 45c+. To mount the inrunner you'll need the 16x19 Multiplex mount from Smallpartscnc.com. I have the mount because I intend to run my dog on the Mega to get 150 mph level out of her. For now, try an APC 9x9 on 3s and see what you get.

[Burning Head]

Copy Rich, thanks. We all waite for a new speed record this summer from you and your FunJet:cool: