Amazing !!!!

[Elgreco]

This is just awesome..

Bromont royal golf club on Vimeo

Cap232 Vol en immersion a BrossAir on Vimeo

[turkana]

That is sooooo cooolll really nice vids. Regards Pete

[Windryder]

Second best to having a real airplane!

Anyone researched on how much and where u can get all the material to recreate this?

Tam

[turkana]

HEre is one http://www.helidirect.com/fflying-inches-full-color-lcd-screen-video-eyewear-p-8174.hdx

[Andrew Fernie]

I love the rudder pedals and control stick moving!

If you are interested in wireless video I found this link (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=90490)a while ago. It has lots of information on the setups. A couple of WIMAC members had a wireless video downlink running in the early 90's. In those days, however, the batteries and TX were big and heavy. The modern stuff is much more practical.

Remember, though, if you want to do this you need to be flying with someone who has a direct view of the aircraft - no flying solely by a video link. The MAAC safety code requires the direct view. I couldn't find much else in the safety code, but it would certainly make sense that the pilot work with a buddy box, with the person with the goggles being the "student". This starts to cross into UAV territory, so Jeremy may be able to give more background on any rules.

[Xavier]

It is very spectacular but as Andrew mentionned, the MAAC rule doesn't allow to fly with the airplane out of sight.

On some of these videos, I am sure it was out of sight. Specially if the guy is looking into the goggle screen. I don't think he could see outside so he actually never see the airplane. Just look were he is looking when he taxi off the pit on the second video.

I am trying to found the MAAC magazine were there was something about that in the president section. I believe he was mentionning the body box and the main radio having to be in the hands of the 'normal' pilot.

Our insurance doesn't cover UAV and this is clearly indicated in the insurance section of the MAAC website. http://www.maac.ca/committees/maac_committee.php?cm=14

[turkana]

Does the insurance cover anything...:rolleyes: . seriously gets wores by the day.

[bob forest]

Yes, MAAC insurance covers a fair amount of things, but this is something new, and just think when he is flying over the golf course, and something goes wrong, and hits a nice Mercedez, or the building, to me this is risky, plus he was alone.
At the club field, I can see it, but again, he was flying alone, no partner.
If you want Maac to cover all this stuff, you better be prepared to pay a hell of a lot more. For me I am not interested in that, nice to look at, you can watch so many videos.
I think they will have to go to their home owners policy. That should be interesting on the cost.
Just my opinion

[Elgreco]

Guys, guys.....Come on !!
I totally agree with you about insurance. But have some fun, enjoy the hobby. I posted this because it's truly a great achievement and it's nice to look at, not put it under a magnifying glass. The guy's work is simply extraordinary.

Heck, is it dangerous ? YES ! Is it fun ? Heck yes !!!

I think someone that has the brains to put something like this together, understands the danger of it too and I give him the benefit of the doubt. If he is plain irresponsible, it's another story, I don't know him.

My posting was for other reasons. NOT safety..Sorry if I offended anyone, not my intent..:)

[matador_24]

Agree with Mario..... if he hits a mercedez and the insurance does not cover it, he pays the mercedez, that is it, if he kills someone, then he goes to jail, that is it..... If he is not making responsibly of the MAAC, that is his problem.....
If there was not people like him, the hobby would not step further every day......
just my humble opinion... thanks for the video Mario, I just think it is awesome..... I had seen it in RC cars, people driving cars like that, browse it on youtube and you will find it... it looks awesome in cars too....

[zorba]

Like Mario said is just for fun.
And Luis the same we should advance.
Some of us like what we have and we stick with it and some of us we advance. By that I mean we are taking a chance of building something of our own and make it work.
It could be dangerous if we make a mistake but then again is fun.
I converted a nitro heli to a gasser. I took a chance in time and money. But it worked. It is dangerous cause is bigger and more powerfull.
Is not a production machine like Jame's Freya gasser.
It hasn't been tested by the manufacturer, but I did it and she flies.
So away with the old and in with the new I say.
As you all know I love building helis and planes.
Heck when I started my gasser conversion I had an idea to take a weed weater and slap a set of blades on it and fly it. Now that would be cool. I wonder if MAAC would approve of it LOL


Cheers

[turkana]

So since when is a foamplane dangerous??In the first vid its a foam model uhhhh scary!! Lol Thanks for the Vids Mario they made my day. I personaly think people flying around these days with FM Radiosystems are way more dangerous then foamies with cameras.

Regards Pete

[Elgreco]

Peter, I gave the dvd to Tarek. I figure it's easier to see him than me..

[turkana]

Thanks Mario. Yeah just shows us that we do not get enough airtime! Sad really. Anyway will try to come to the field tomorrow, but it will be late around 6:30pm. Regards Pete

[Jeremy Cartlidge]

The MAAC board recognises that there are diverse interests in aeromodelling and is proactive in trying to adapt and cater to the opportunities offered by new technologies.

There is a MAAC UAV Advisory Group that I chair and the group members are modellers with a broad knowledge of UAVs, including FPV flying. Our aim is to help MAAC in its efforts to cater to these new segments and to represent our aeromodelling interests with the government regulators.

There is a Canadian legal definition of a model aircraft. If you follow the MAAC code, you are complying with the regulations and you do net need to read and understand the Transport Canada documents.

Going outside the MAAC code with FPV or other equipment could mean that legally you are operating a UAV and then you need to do lots of air law research. You will need a Transport Canada Special Flight Operations Certificate, even for a light foamy UAV indoors.

The originator of the videos is an exceptionally gifted modeller, technologist and pilot who is a MAAC member. He is also aware of the risks, obligations and legalities of FPV. The equipment gets better and cheaper each year - perhaps this is the future of our hobby - FPV IMAC?

Send me a PM if you have any questions.

[turkana]

Hi
Yes I read about it getting more and more complicated and that there has to be a legal framework for the "Model UAV" actitities. Were a foamie may still be smiled at , but just imagine somebody has to much loose cash and starts doing this with a 20 kg RC jet :eek: and lets say this somebody has bad intrests and uses the jet for a terrorist attack!! If modlers can do this , guess who else could??If something like this should ever happen , then god be with us and our great hobby, because then its just over!! Just my opinion and I am not jokeing this time!


regards Pete

[matador_24]

Hi
Yes I read about it getting more and more complicated and that there has to be a legal framework for the "Model UAV" actitities. Were a foamie may still be smiled at , but just imagine somebody has to much loose cash and starts doing this with a 20 kg RC jet :eek: and lets say this somebody has bad intrests and uses the jet for a terrorist attack!! If modlers can do this , guess who else could??If something like this should ever happen , then god be with us and our great hobby, because then its just over!! Just my opinion and I am not jokeing this time!


regards Pete



Lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[Zeke]

Great video but this MAAC thing has me a bit confused. I get that it's an association but what I don't get is why everyone seems to be a member of it.
Is it law that you have to be a member in order to fly RC planes in Canada?

I kinda find it hard to believe that this is the case otherwise stores like toys r us would not be able to sell RC planes / Helicopters of any kind without some kind of check or notice advising that you have to be a MAAC member in order to do so.

What exactly is it for? What are its benefits to me as an individual and is it required by law?

[bob forest]

I am not an expert on all why's , but if it were not for MAAC our frequencies before 2.4 would not of been protected. Also Your home insurance in many cases does not cover if you have an accident at a field and you hit a car or a house and something bad happens. I know MAAC works with a gvt section that has to do with flying airplanes. It is through MAAC that some of these rules are brought to us. Like planes over 75lbs have to be inspected before flying.
MAAC does not only insure the pilots that fly at a club, but also the owner of that land that the club rents it from. It takes the responsebility away from the land owner.
If you feel you don't need MAAC, you are on your own. No club will accept you. I you feel you want to take that chance, good luck.
Maac also has a Mag that comes out 4 times a year. Giving us news of what is going on across Canada in all phases of the hobby. Ucontrol, free flight, etc. Through MAAC the Canadian team is partly sponsored. If you are not a MAAC member, you can't even fly in the USA, unless you join their association which is the AMA. If you are an American you can fly anywhere in Canada as long as you are a member of AMA and the reverse is the same, you can Fly anywhere in the USA as long as you are a member of MAAC. In both cases that is as a visitor not a full year around. ,like if you live here and you join only AMA your fine for a weekend or if on holidays for a couple of weeks. That is it. Same as for a MAAC member if he goes to the USA.
Hope this helps, and I am sure there will be other reasons given by others.

[Zeke]

Does anyone happen to know the regulatory acts regarding this from Transport Canada?

Forgive me for being skeptical or cynical about this but it just seems to me to be odd that the Federal Government would even bother to regulate RC Hobby aircraft unless there were significant risks involved and in which case, they would, like any over vehicle, require government approved courses and a license to operate them.

Sounds a bit like an "Amway" pitch to me...

Bear in mind that I DO see the benefit of having experienced RC pilots around to help out, get advice from, learn from and I wholly agree that it's a great advantage to have that available to newbs to the hobby.

I also get the reasoning for a code of conduct and rules governing an airfield for RC craft to protect the people / property from injury / damage.

What I don't get is if insurance is required, then it's something that MUST be underwritten by an insurance company and MAAC from what I see from here and their website, is NOT an insurance company but rather an association.


I haven't made any decisions as yet but I will get informed appropriately and proceed based on what the LEGAL way to go is. If that means joining MAAC then so be it.

[bob forest]

I am not sure, but I think it is Loyds of London the Insurance company that MAAC is signed up with. I know the insurance fees is a very large part of the MAAC budget.

[Elgreco]

Zeke...

I agree with you about MAAC.

But...if you ever wanted to fly in a club, it is required. Let's face it. That is the only reason I pay for it, and not really the insurance as I tend to rely on myself if anything happens since insurance companies always find a way to avoid paying with one excuse or another.

Also to the ignorant out there that might approach and asks if it's allowed to fly at a park or a farm, I say I have insurance and that usually shuts them up...

[bob forest]

Now that we are speaking of MAAC, and the weather for tomorrow is looking bad, maybe it is a good time for you to attend the AZM meeting tomorrow and ask all these questions and find out why and what advantage is it to be a MAAC member. If you don't show up, then you wont know. It is a fun day, swap meet, planes on exibition and nice prizes and also raffles for money towarads one of the Childrens hospitals.
Here is the info.
Please advise all of your members to attend the AZM , Saturday October 24/09 at the École des métiers de l'aérospatiale de Montréal 5300, rue Chauveau, Montréal (Québec) H1N 3V7 ? (514) 596-2376

As a special incentive to MAAC members attending, we will do the following:
• One free MAAC memberships by raffle draw
• 10 % discount on three year MAAC membership signed at AZM for 3 first persons
• 15 % discount on their next year’ MAAC members to any MAAC member signing up a new member at AZM
Committee Chairman wishing to present reports are asked to submit it in writing by October 17, 2009 to Steve Woloz

Note: There will be very attractive prizes that can be won in buying raffle tickets. This includes an
• RC helicopter donated by Great Hobbies;
• 80 “ ARF Balsa Nova 120 plane donated by St Jean Teleguide,
• 14.4 volt De Walt cordless drill ensemble donated by Reno Depot;
• Carbon fibre spinner donated by Pete’s Model
• Smoke oil Donated by Paul’s Extreme Graphics
• ARF planes
There will be special attendance prizes donated to the first 20 persons to arrive.
If you have models to sell you can do so at our swap shop.
Do not miss our new Tech Sessions :
• Simple Electronic Circuitry : Eric Girard 10:00 – 10:45
• Covering Your Models : Paul Burrage 11:00 – 11:45
Doors open: 9:30; Light Food and beverage available on sight ; No ATM bring cash

Looking to see you all soon
Steve Woloz
MAAC St-Laurent Zone Director
( Phone: (514) 944 8241
: Regular Email: s.woloz@swaassoc.com
: Wireless Email: s.woloz@rogers.blackberry.net http://www.maac.ca/

Paul Burrage
MAAC Deputy St-Laurent Zone Director
( Phone: (514) 591-0365
: Regular Email: comparf@hotmail.com
http://www.maac.ca/

[Ronald Longtin]

Chaque sport a son organisation nationale pour régler tout les détails petits et grands concernant le sport en question et aussi pour chapeauter tous les aspects, les règlements et les tournois concernant le sport.

Dans bien des cas on paye pour ça indirectement ou cela fait parti de l'abonnement sans que l'on le sache. Ici chacun doit s'abonner au MAAC pour profiter des clubs de modélisme qui eux profitent du soutien du MAAC pour une somme nominale (25$ pas an)

Comme notre activité est un peu hors normes il serait fastidieux pour chacun de nous de se trouver une assurance individuelle et le MAAC s'est retrouvé avec cette tâche. Les clubs préfèrent adhérer au MAAC pour la même raison.

Les autres activités du MAAC nous concernent moins directement mais elles ont souvent un effet important sur le déroulement de notre activité.

Dans un sport comme le ski, j'apprécie que les règles de sécurité soient dictées par une asssociation et non selon le bon vouloir du propriétaire du club. C'est un peu la même chose pour nous.

[Zeke]

So I take it then that all MAAC members carry the mandatory Transport Canada SFOC regarding UAV's?

Quote from Transport Canada's site:

" 1. The Canadian Aviation Regulations, Part VI, Subpart 3, Division IV – Miscellaneous Special Flight Operations contains the information that must be submitted to the Minister in order to obtain a Special Flight Operations Certificate for the operation of an unmanned air vehicle system.

2. Regional Superintendents, General Aviation and Civil Aviation Safety Inspectors, General Aviation — Headquarters are delegated (Schedule C-9) the authority and responsibility to issue Special Flight Operations Certificates for the operation of unmanned air vehicle systems and to specify the conditions to be contained in the certificates.

3. The successful operation of a UAV system requires adequate pre-planning by the operator. In consideration of the limited aviation background of many UAV manufacturers and operators, where they may have little or no knowledge of Transport Canada requirements and procedures, the processing of an application may be very demanding on an Inspector's time.

4. Upon initial contact with a Certificate applicant, the Inspector should ensure that the applicant is:

1. in possession of the Standards applicable to unmanned air vehicles, and if not, inform the operator of the procedures to obtain them,

2. made aware of the type of information that must be submitted in an SFOC application (i.e. the applicant obtains a copy of this staff instruction)

3. made aware of the requirement to submit the application a minimum of 20 working days prior to the date of the proposed operation."

Their Interpretation:

"It is important to note that what is often considered a “model aircraft” by an operator is in fact an “unmanned air vehicle” by definition. Subsection 101.01(1) of the CARs defines model aircraft as:

1. “model aircraft”- means an aircraft, the total weight of which does not exceed 35 kg (77.2 pounds), that is mechanically driven or launched into flight for recreational purposes and that is not designed to carry persons or other living creatures."

from what I reading here, it means that ALL MAAC members across Canada MUST obtain this Certificate in order to be able to fly R/C Aircraft as they fall under the definition of a UAV.


FYI: I am a VERY thorough person... I have also initiated contact with Transport Canada to find out their exact intent regarding these regulations.

[beto9]

Well Zeke, it goes like this... you do not have to join MAAC to fly anything you may like but yoiu will have to find your own flying field because no R/C flying club will allow you to fly if you don't have a MAAC membership.
MAAC is the Canadian Association that regulates and lobbies for the hobby with the appropiate Canadian authorities.
It also negotiates and provides insurance to all its members.

[Xavier]

MAAC has an agreement of some sort with transport Canada about model airplanes. A model airplane use for recreational purpose is not an UAV as long it stays within the direct line of sight of the pilot.

A national organisation allow some standard on the way things works. As it has been mentionned, you need to be member of the association to participate in an activity at a registered club and/or field and/or event. That also allow the organizer to know that you are qualified and safe.

MAAC is NOT an insurance compagny even if most talk only about the insurance. It's a very wrong way of talking about MAAC. The insurance is a small portion of the 75$/year.

There are no law forcing anyone to be member of MAAC (or a club). However, you should not expect any advantage from the organisation either but you still do indirectly.

I may not agree with everything at MAAC but I agree that we need a national association.

I am not sure the insurance is that big a part of MAAC budget. You should have a look at the magazine cost...

Xavier

[Jeremy Cartlidge]

Zeke,

The Parliament of Canada (our elected lawmakers) created the Aeronautics Act (law) that says that no aircraft may fly in Canada without the blessing of the Minister of Transport for civil aircraft or the Minister of Defence for military aircraft. Canada is also an ICAO contracting state and has made a commitment (Chicago Convention of 1944 and subs amendments) to the UN to regulate the use of Canadian airspace to ensure the safe and free movement of international air commerce.

The Minister of Transport has a staff of government officials (Transport Canada) who operate on his behalf under the authority granted by the Aeronautics Act to regulate civil aviation. Transport Canada regulates aviation by means of the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs).

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regserv/affairs/cars/menu.htm

Near the beginning of the CARs you will find the definition of a "model aircraft" Reading on you will find that the regulations do not apply to military aircraft or model aircraft unless otherwise indicated. The Minister of Defence is responsible for regulating military aircraft and Transport Canada (lacking in resources) relies on model aircraft fliers, through an association (MAAC) to self regulate.

In Canada we are very fortunate to have this freedom. It depends on model flyers being trusted to maintain a safe and responsible attitude. The MAAC safety code, club organization and the liability insurance coverage demonstrate to Transport Canada that we are responsible citizens who can be left to enjoy our hobby without direct government control.

If you join MAAC and follow the guidelines you do not need to read the CARs since you will be within a sound legal framework. If you fly outside the MAAC umbrella, you are on your own. Remember that the "unless otherwise indicated" means that there is not a blanket exemption for model aircraft. There are CARs that cover a range of topics such as "reckless or negligent", "alcohol", "liability insurance", "overflight" etc and following a serious accident you may need a very good lawyer to show that you did not break the law. These are "offence-creating" provisions and a violation can result in judicial action.

The trend in many countries is towards tighter regulation of model aviation because of the increased numbers of small UAVs and cheap RTF models. I believe that in Australia the MAAA is formally recognised by CASA as a delegated regulatory authority with the force of law. In the US, the FAA is planning to introduce a special FAR that will tighten control of modellers who fly without appropriate association (AMA) governance.

We all hate to pay MAAC membership fees. However MAAC is not about insurance. It is about having freedom to use the government controlled airspace and radio frequencies. I pay my membership and give thanks that MAAC exists. $75 per year would be a bargain even without insurance coverage. Imagine the cost if you needed to register each radio and aircraft with a government agency each year as well as adding model flying to the liability section of your homeowner's policy. Model flying in Canada without MAAC (or AMA) membership is rather like using your local club flying field without being a club member since you are benefiting from the work done by MAAC to facilitate the hobby.

[Zeke]

I'm not so concerned about the insurance really but being forced into something just to be able to participate in a recreational activity that is considered a hobby makes it less enjoyable.

I don't think I'd ever go to an aerodrome. Been there, done that, found it very boring to be honest. 25 years ago, this was a very expensive hobby with NO exceptions but now with depron planes and electric systems, it makes a $1000 / plane hobby come down to a far more affordable range.

I have been looking for something like this to do with my 6 yr old and depron made this a very attractive option but to have to add all these other expenses on top of the rest of the cost to get started in it again made this a very frustrating thing to see.

Back then I used to fly "Zeke's" (Mitsubishi A6M Reisen or Japanese Zero) hence the nickname "Zeke". I left the hobby when it became too expensive to keep up for a 16 yr old (Those old gas planes glow plugs were notorious for burning out mid-flight). My last flight I took it into a loop and started to roll out the back end of the loop when the plug burnt and the motor stopped. I managed to level it but the inertia was greater then the lift it was getting and a ground zero was a real loud crunch. It was at that point I decided not to repair or replace the plane and stopped flying (Something I regretted for a long time).

I just finished reading the 62 page PDF on this and after going through it, there is nothing -requiring- anyone to register with MAAC or any other association unless they intend to fly planes in excess of 77.2 lbs (35 Kg's) in which case they must obtain a SFOC certificate.

I'm not interested in the massive planes and more interested in foam park flyers. I have no interest in competing nor any other kind of tournament so aside from the insurance and access to club Aerodromes there does not seem to be any other benefit from joining the MAAC for me.

As far as advice on how to do stuff well, there are no shortage of good people who are more then willing to give advice and pointers, MAAC member or not.

now if I can just get Depron...

[Elgreco]

At the end of the day it's just the way the hobby is at this moment.
You might not be getting the "freedom of choice " as you would like to, but although I share your thoughts,
I choose to spend the 75 dollars for the MAAC since I already spend a lot more on the hobby itself, in order to be able to fly at a club and socialize with others.

I don't like trying to find a place to fly and also don't like flying alone. If that is your thing, then you don't need to pay for it nor join any club.

I personally do it as many others, for the socialization too.