Microsoft FSX

[pauldaigle]

Did anyone get the latest version of flight simulator from Microsoft (FSX)?

I did about 3 months ago and after upgrading my video card to a 256 MO DDR that is over clocked and, with 1 GB of RAM, the game is still jerky, frames are slow and sometime freeze up, not what you like to see on landing:unhappy: maybe its over control on my part?????

Anyway, just wondering if anyone else is having the same problems and if there is a cure.

I could always upgrade again, to say 2GB RAM, but not sure if that would solve the problem, as, my computer already met all the published requirements to run the program and, 1GB is supposed to be plenty.

What next?

[xed]

Haven't tried the game but it sounds like your video card isn't up to snuff. What brand and model is it?

Software requirements are generally considered the "minimum" requirements. They don't want to scare away potential customers until the sale is done.

[pauldaigle]

Ya Greg, the card is a NVidia GeForce FX5500 OC PCI, with 256MO DDR.

Not the latest wizz bang version, but who wants to spend $500.00+ on a state of the art, video card, to play a $75 game? Anyway the guy at the store where I bought this thing, told me that the even if I would get a 512 version, it would not improve the rendition, as the problem seems to be in the card processor speed, and, the one I have now is overclocked, what ever that does??????

All my other progs and games work just fine as is, so, what the F...?

:blink:

So, I think I might now have to upgrade to 2GB of RAM, which is alot cheaper these days than video cards.

Whatcha think?:bouncy:

[xed]

You can try adding more memory but I have run games with far more system requirements than this on 1GB.

Before spending money, I would try closing any programs that are running at the time, (e.g. MSN Messenger, browser windows, Virus scanner, etc.) to free up as much memory as possible.

Based upon your PCI graphics card, you won't be able to spend $500 on a new one anyhow since they are mostly all using PCI-Express nowadays so your motherboard won't even support it.

[Chris Bowes]

Paul, I've read a few reviews of this new sim and all have pointed out it is capable of crippling even the top-end gaming rigs. To get a more playable experience you may try reducing the screen resolution the game runs at and also tweaking the in-game graphics options to turn down the level of graphical detail.

2Gb of RAM is slowly becoming the "norm" in high-end systems but i doubt very much you will see a big enough improvement which justifies the $$$ of the extra RAM.

The most bang-for-your-buck will probably be investing in a new graphics card but even then there's no point going for a top end card when its performance will be throttled by other components in your machine such as the CPU. BTW the OC in your graphics card title just means that the memory and graphics chip runs at a slightly higher frequency (i.e. more processes per second) than the stock settings for that hardware - more a marketing ploy than delivering sizeable real improvements.

If you got the PC in the last three years or so the graphics card is probably PCI-express - the latest standard for graphics cards. If so you would not need to spend much to improve on the 5500 card you have.

[pauldaigle]

Thank's Greg and Chris, that is what I was affraid of, the whole computer needs an upgrade I guess?. The mother board works fine for all applications on windows XP, so far. The PCI-E does not give me a buzz as, the only difference is in the availability of the new products for the mother boards. The performance of a PCI-E vs. PCI or AGP, is probably better, but, my old board works just fine for now, except for FSX.

For the sake of a 2 bit game, and windows Vista, forget about it !!!!!!!

That is, until the whole system does not work anymore:pissedoff:

Top 10 reasons to upgrade your sytem or not;

1-Purchase all the latest games and software.They will only work good if you spend some more $$$$ ,to see what they can do.

2-Make sure your computer is up to date?

3-Every 6 months, get a new computer.

4-Make sure that when you purchase a new computer, you go for overkill, and spend alot of money, so that it will last you for another 6 months without being obsolete.

5-Speak to the salesman, he will tell you what else you need.

6-Get all the latest versions of virus and internet protection, they only take up half of your RAM and, will give you alot of security.

7-Make sure that you update all your programs, they tend to get outdated, and only cost a few dollars for a new version. Dont forget #3 get a new computer every 6 months or they might not work too good.

8-When your computer freezes up, it's not your fault, it's just telling you that you did not get the latest update. Hurry up, and get the Puppy!

9-When all else fails, turn it OFF!

And, the number 10 reason,

10-When you keep getting e-mails for Viagra, special price direct from ???, or ,for free yoyos, this is not a good sign! Time to change your computer!

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[Paul Weijers]

I have been running FSX for some time and it works very well. The motherboard has an AMD64Athlon processor, graphics card Radeon 9200 and only 512 M memory.

Your problem may well be in the motherboard. I had mine cobbled together by Microbytes in Pointe claire. Explained that I wanted to run simulators. Fellow was too young to vote but seemed to know what I was talking about.
Previous answer about background programs may be right. There is often stuff running in background that is of no use.
Instead of buying a new computer, maybe just change the motherboard and keep the powersupply, drives, displays etc.
Anyway, good luck.
Paul

[stephane.savard]

For what its worth, I beleive FSX uses Pixel Shaders, the bane of my computer gaming existence.

I like a good RPG games, and I wanted to try out Oblivion and the latest Neverwinter Nights. Of course back when I tried these games, they'd crash on startup. That was because my video card did not support the new Pixel Shader technology. So I went out and bought a new video card, the 5500fx, just like you, though not overclocked. Surprise, the game (Neverwinter Nights) works, but just barely, not worth playing.

The reason is quite simple; the 5500fx does not implement pixel shading very well. It is a few generations behind the current crop of video cards. If FSX uses Pixel shading, you might want to try and disabling it on your video card to get higher frame rates (Google pixel shader and FSX together) it *might* work.

What I don't understand is why they don't make this silly Pixel Shading stuff optional in games these days. Games used to look good with decent frame rates on "normal" computers. Today, games look a bit better, but even the best computers slow down to a crawl trying to show you reflections on water :) To me, I'll take smooth ugly graphics over great choppy graphics any day.

Other things to try; run the game in your monitor's native resolution. Open the task manager and kill every task you can get away with. you can even disable the virus checker, but if you do, I suggest disconnecting from the net. You can even kill your desktop! Go into the task manager and kill "explorer.exe". Your desktop will disapear (i.e. start button, and etc). But, it's not actually necessary to run the game (and uses lots of computer resources)! If the game has a launcher window, start it before you kill explorer.exe, and if not, in the task manager, simply use the command File | New Task... to start FSX.

enjoy the game!

[Chris Bowes]

Stephane, FWIW i run Oblivion on my PC OK, pentium 4 2.66GHz with an old AGP Radeon 9800PRO. Running at 1024x768 resolution with fancy graphics detail like shadows and reflections turned off I get very playable gameplay even when there's a lot of action on screen. Although this game is a killer at full detail it has a lot of in-game options to dial it down and get decent gameplay on lower end systems

[Chris Bowes]

If you are considering a new video card for gaming I find this link very useful for side-to-side comparison of different models:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html

[stephane.savard]

hmmm, i had gotten the game to run on my machine, but the problem was mostly the cutscenes (introduction), the sound was okay but the video was not moving (or barely). As for ingame, since I couldn't get the video to run, I didn't bother with the rest of the game (same with Neverwinter Nights, cutscenes didn't work).

Maybe I had another problem causing me problems. In any case, I played (and still play) Morrowind instead. Same gameplay, less graphics :)

[pauldaigle]

Well I got some ideas here how to improve on it, but, being basicaly a computer dummy when it gets too technical, I will see what I can do.

Steph, how the heck do you turn off the pixel shading thing of a jiggy?

When I am in the game there are no options for that. You have the same card so maybe you can bare with me on this one.:bouncy:

Also, when I reduce the graphics quality in FSX it works a bit better, but still jerky, and, I cant see the buildings or other items that should be there. At least I have a runway.Dohhhh!
:wacky:

Forgot to mention, that the old card was plugged into an AGP slot, but I could not find a newer AGP card that would work in the same slot at the time, so, I purchased a PCI card which I had a free slot for. No PCI-E on the mother board unfortunatly. The PC is 4 years old so it does not have PCI-E slots. Dont know if it matters or not to have a card in the AGP or PCI slot, as far as all the other progs go the PCI works fine.

[Chris Bowes]

Hi paul, it is much much much better to have a card using the AGP slot rather than a standard PCI slot. You won't notice anything when browsing the web or doing office stuff but when it comes to games PCI based cards just will not cut it today. Although AGP is no longer "the" standard new cards are still available based on the latest technology. Take a look at these links to point you in the right direction:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/06/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page5.html

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21098&vpn=88-8E04-02-SA&manufacture=SAPPHIRE

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=19964&vpn=BFGR76512GSOC&manufacture=BFG%20Technologies

Not saying that these will enable you to play with all the bells and whistles turned on but would improve things for you and will give you the best bang-for-your-buck compared to extra memory, motherboards etc. etc..

[pauldaigle]

I think I got my answer, AGP is now available in a newer card version, and I will try that, for a few hundred bucks more.

What a shame Microsoft could not put out a product that would take into consideration that alot of folks dont have the newest and bestest pc products. Do I think there is a conspiracy here? hehehehe!! Dohhhh!:pissedoff:

I will let you know what my better half Banker says, it will most likely be like this. (What? another Video card? are you crazy? get a life!)

They dont seem to understand the essentials of life.:blink:

Here's another question, sorry for my lack of knowledge on this. What is an AGP 2.0 slot or higher? I have an AGP slot that came with a Dell Dimension 8200 4 years ago. It has an AGP slot where the previous card was installed. So, do I have an AGP card slot that will support AGP 2.0 or not, and, how can I find out?

[Chris Bowes]

Hi Paul, its difficult with pre-configured systems like Dell to really find out exactly what is inside their boxes. For good reason I suppose, it forces most people to go back and buy their products for upgrades.

Try this link to see the difference between different standards of AGP slots. You will need to open up your case and take a good look at the appearance of the AGP slot and compare to the pictures in the link below. That should tell you what standard slot you have.

http://www.motherboards.org/articles/tech-planations/920_4.html

If your still not sure post a picture and i'll see what i can find out.

One other piece of advice if considering a newer graphics card. You will need to know if the card you are considering purchasing requires a dedicated power supply connection. Older cards drew their power directly through the connections in the slot they are plugged into. However these days video cards require an additional power connection directly from your power supply. The trouble here though is that just as everything else in PC's evolves so do power supplies and so you will probably find that you lack the special connector on your power supply. Just be sure to check before you put down your $$$.

[pauldaigle]

Thank's again Chris for your patience and putting up with a video card Dummy:laugh:

This is not my forte, and, although I understand what you are saying, I feel somewhat lost with the information on the web site you posted.

I downloaded 269 pages of the AGP specs, and still cant figure out what they are saying past the Index section. Dohhhh!:laugh:

So, maybe, if I post a picture of the old AGP card, you can figure it out, ie. AGP 1.0, 2.0 or anything that might work in my AGP slot:hmm:

Thank's again Chris, for your support.

BTY, Steph, seems to have the same problem with his card, I think? Dont know if he has an AGP slot, but we have the same PCI card now and, have the same problemos. Yes, I know that the AGP slot in my system provided the power for the card, and a new card might need a special connection to the power supply. So, something else to figure out.:pissedoff:

Anyway, lets start with the picture.:laugh:

[stephane.savard]

Paul, I have an AGP card, not PCI. Sorry I didn't get back to you about the Pixel Shading. If you're not comfurtable with the stuff, I would not recommend trying to disable Pixel Shading, it has to be done using a special program and get seriously mess up your card if you do something wrong. I have trouble in there and when turning off Pixel shading didn't help me in my particular case, I just reset everything back to normal and decided against doing any further stuff to the video card.

My thought on it then was to come back to the games I can't play with my current system in a few years when my system gets changed, and play older games for now :)

[Chris Bowes]

Hi Paul, I'm pretty sure now that you have an AGP 2.0 compliant slot. If you post a picture that should confirm it.

I found quite a bit on information on the dell website, the AGP specification for the dimension 8200 is a 172-pin slot, 32-bit supporting AGP 2x/4x with 1.5V. From the previous links this suggests that it must be AGP version 2.0 compliant.

Doing a general search in the technical support section of the dell website their are quite a few threads in their forum from people who have successfully upgraded their card. It seems a good choice would be the NVidia Geforce 6600GT, future shop have the AGP version on-line for $149.97. You will not need additional power supply for this card either.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10058989&catid=10524

Here's a few useful links for you:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8200/replace.htm#1102079

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ins8200/en/1H018bk3.pdf

Also the specs of the FX5500 versus the 6600GT (basically the 6600GT should deliver an improvement for you, whether its a $150 improvement thats your call :) )

FX5500:

Graphics Core: 256-bit
Memory Interface:128-bit
Memory Bandwidth:6.4 GB/sec.
Fill Rate:1.1 billion texels/sec.
Vertices/sec.:68 million
Pixels per Clock (peak):4
Textures per Pixel:16
RAMDACs: 350 MHz

6600GT AGP:

Memory Interface: 128-bit
Memory Bandwidth: 14.4 GB/sec.
Fill Rate (texels/sec.): 4.0 billion
Vertices per Second: 375 million
Memory Data Rate: 900 MHz
Pixels per Clock (peak): 8
RAMDACs: 400 MHz

[pauldaigle]

Thank's alot Chris, seems like the thread might stop here or the thread police will issue us a fine LOL :-)

I will try and post a picture of the old card, just to confirm that it is AGP 2.0 compatible.

Thank's again

[xed]

That is AGP.

[beto9]

The Thread Police is watching this very closely.
Wouldn't you rather fly a plane or a heli than play in the computer?

[Chris Bowes]

And i'm 99.99% certain it is version 2.0. Its the same slot pattern on my ATI 9800pro which i know for sure is.

Also from the info I found from the Dell website your AGP slot is 1.5V and supports AGP 4x data transfer both of which are not supported by earlier versions of AGP standards.

[pauldaigle]

Thank's again Chris, I will check it out at future shop.

Steph, maybe this could be a solution for you too, for $150. I know the PCI-E version of the 6600 is on sale at Bureau en Gros for $129. I will keep my eyes out for the AGP version when it goes on sale.

Alberto, yes, probably your right but 1-as far as I know, there is no access to the club right now and even if there is, I think it would be pretty slushy out there, yuck!, 2- I have lake ice phobia when it gets to 5C with rain
3- I like it here in my virtual world, especially when I look outside:bouncy:

[xed]

Word of caution regarding the GeForce 6600 model. I had made the mistake of buying the MSI+ branded version of the 6600 only to find issues with it overheating in certain games (World of Warcraft).

The MSI version's heatsink was total crap, and mostly installed for looks. It had little or no contact with the GPU and even after I pulled it off and buffed it and applied thermal paste again, it was improved but still not enough. The "copper" heatsink was just some copper color paint sprayed over aluminum.

I replaced it with a BFG 7800GT and my problems went away, although this board was more expensive at the time.

[beto9]

With all the added knowledge found in this Web site... how come we are not ALL rich?
Anybody has some advise to make money? Legally, more or less....

[stephane.savard]

Wanna make money Albert? Stop having hobbies :)

Paul: I've resigned myself to playing older computer games for now, I already have photography and r/c sucking up all my funds, if I spend any more on my computer, it will be for more RAM, a great big monitor or a harddrive; all to help my working with photos. Video cards are waaaay down on my wish list :)

[beto9]

Judging by your posting you are in your way to the poor house but... enjoying every minute of it!

[bob forest]

I think if you get a BFR with a minus 2 x plus 4 L, and a flat base with no 3xxx less a 11 tube, you will notice no hissing when the double B comes on with the video. Now I was told that Hyundi make a good double triple broad, I mean board. just my opinion

[stephane.savard]

Albert: yup, I'm enjoying it all :) just have to be more patient waiting for the funds, and be more selective when making a purchase. A lot of times we end up buying hobby things that we really don't need.

Look at the game Ancient Domains of Mystery, it's fairly new, has likely ten times the depth of gameplay of many of the current games, and you can run it on *any* video card, no matter how old. It's also virtually free. Only problem is, most people would not give it another look because of its umm, "graphics".

[pauldaigle]

Albert, to make money, sell computor parts, the OEM is never good enough, like a Harley you keep customizing.

Bob, you got to have the 3xxx or the broad or I mean board is no good.

Steph, enjoy what you have, why do we always need more in this society? Marketing, marketing, marketing:wacky:

Greg, is the BFG 7800GT available in AGP 2.0 without need of a power cord?

[Chris Bowes]

Paul the 7800GT isn't but its younger brother the 7800GS is......

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=17695&vpn=BFGR78256GSOC&manufacture=BFG%20Technologies

With a system thats a few years old though you really won't be able to unleash its full potential.

[pauldaigle]

Ya Chris, I assume a dongle is a power cable connecter, which I dont have, so the 7800 is out, back to the 6800. Thanks.

[beto9]

Will this thread ever end?
I am not reading anymore, I am going in the welding business!

[pauldaigle]

Alberto, dont you want to know what a dongle is?:wacky:

Or maybe you already have one?:O_o:

I promise, no more, I would not want you to get upset, or, get a fine from the thread Police:yes:

The marketing polls show this thread as being #2 at 475 views VS the opinion thread at 891 and counting. I still had alot of work ahead of me to catch up, but, I will respect the majority consensus.

So, Alberto, you will never know how to dingle your dongle, or dongle your dingle. Too bad!

[Chris Bowes]

I found a pretty decent freeware tool which gives lots of info about whats in your PC:

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php#about

[falconflyer04]

Hey Guys,

I just found that post and I tought I could provide some help! My dad and me own a computer company and we sell/repair computer and parts... I am also an addicted user of FS9 and FSX so I know what you are talking about!

First of all, you have to understand that fsx was designed for computers far more advanced then the one actually on the market so that the software is good for around 2 years... If you look at fs9, when it got out on the market even the top of the line computer could barely get 20fps because the simulator was more advanced then the technology available. They make it this way so that the software is upgradable during the year and as more add-ons appaers. It's their way to make money! Actually even the best computer available with core 2 duo processor and a nvidia 8800gts video card can cut it at fsx on ultra settings so you can see how hardware dependant it is!

Now for your problem, I have to say, don't go buy another 1gb because it will be useless for two reason. First your computer must have old type memory(ddr400) and second the other hardware in your computer will be holding it back. Now, if you want to upgrade your video card it would not hurt your systems but like i said you won't really see the difference in fsx for now! Also because your agp slot is 4x and the 6800 is agp 8x, that will really slow it down...

So your best bet for now would be to keep your money and wait for new vista and dx10 compatible hardware to get out... Until then it's completely useless to upgrade for fsx if it's not with the last hardware.

Maybe I could provide some help depending on your computer specs.. Could you please post screenshots of the CPU-Z results and then i could provide you more info!

That's about it... Sorry if my post is long... lol

Now for those who would be interested in buying a new computer or computer parts at competitive price, here are my info...

Gestion Carma
Carl Boutet

Cya

[pauldaigle]

Ok Carl, thanks for the advice. Seems like alot of money to invest in a machine just to play FSX, so I will stay status quo for now, and put up with the slow frame rates, freezing up etc. What a waste of $79. Microsoft sure wants to make alot of money with this one, but, the average machine out there does not put out what the product is built for, so they might have to wait a few years before the average consumer changes over to a newer system.

Oh well that's their problem, my system works just fine as is for the progs, and games I run, and I see no reason to accomodate Microsoft at this point.

I will keep your business address on file for when I am ready to make the big change.

Oh, and Chris, that site is good I guess, if you know how to read the specs.

I now know I have DRAM400 and the 1MB RAM chipset goes for close to $400 OUCH!

With no Dongle connection, even up grading the video card is a hassle.

Thanks guys.:bouncy:

[beto9]

You ain't got a dongle either, Paul!

[falconflyer04]

Yep it's a lot of monet to invest and sure it's their way to make money!:wacky:
Im sure your system works very well that's why it's not worth upgrading unless your a fanatict of flightsim... like the guys on www.fs2004.com... lol
Well if you have ddr400 ram it's really not worth upgrading to 2gb because the memory actually available is DDR2 667mhz wich is really a big change!
Everything has changed in actual computers, hardrive are now Sata II, two steps ahead of IDE, memory is ddr2, processor are dual core and finally video card are pci-express wich is 16X btw so a real difference in speed between your actual agp 2x... Right now, I am saying to everyone that wants to upgrade for fsx that it's not worth upgrading depending on their actual need or actual computer because hardware for the new windows vista are not all ready and that means useless upgrade! Btw a 1gb of ram ddr400 for your system goes for 130$... :cool: The dongle for some video card is a simple hdd 12v connection cable so you might have one extra from your psu, for pci express cards it's different...

Yep you can keep my info and contact me when ever you want... I will also have a website up pretty soon so I will submit the link when it's ready!

Thanks

[pauldaigle]

Albert, Dank f?r Ihre Anmerkung, aber vielleicht k?nnen Sie finden, dass etwas anderes tut. Ich dont finde viel Humor in Ihrer Antwort.:pissedoff:

[beto9]

Pablo, me alegro que no hayas apreciado mis palabras... pero estoy esperando que este forum se cierre de una vez por todas...

[pauldaigle]

Alberto, no dese? que este sujeto fuera por lo que esto hizo. Hay sin embargo muchos miembros que respondieron de un modo positivo. Por lo que a m? se refiere, el sujeto se cerr?.:tired1_2:

[beto9]

Pablo, estaba tratando de hacer un chiste refiriendome a que tu dijiste que yo no sabia lo que era un dongle... nada mas!

[xed]

貴方達によっては何が約さざめいているか

[stephane.savard]

00100111001100001001010010111000110100100101011!

[pauldaigle]

S? Alberto, a veces el teclado nos adelanta.
De todos modos, no tengo ningunos sentimientos malos sobre usted.
Lo que WIMAC ser sin un poco de la especia de vez en cuando.
?Ahora, deber?amos volver a nuestro canal regular!

OK guys, we now return to our regularly scheduled broadcast. Sorry for the interruption:crazy2:

As far as I am concerned, this subject has been fully explored and, I think we have covered all the areas. If not, save it for the next time we meet at the club.

Best regards to all, and again, thank's for all your input:bouncy:

Pablosito :-)

aka, 101101100010111010001000101010

:robo: